DH being "pushed" out of yet another job

[needahusbandtransplant]

Hi folks. Sorry, this is going to be long but I'm trying to give a full enough backstory so as not to drip feed. But I need to know if I'm being a heartless bitch, or perfectly reasonable.

So DH and I have been together for 16 years and have 4 kids.

His last 2 jobs have been fraught with stress, anxiety and performance improvement issues, with the last one culminating in a payoff to disappear quietly with the promise of a decent reference. This was after several months of him being off sick with stress.

We had anticipated this ending and about a year before, had downsized our property. I wasn't happy about this but I stood by him and, having only 2 kids at that time, this was reasonably easy to do (the downsizing that is). The new house was a bit of a shithole tbh (although in a good area) but after a few months of unemployment he managed to get a new job. Things were looking up, his new colleagues seemed nice and normal and we were able to do up and extend our home and had 2 more kids.

Fast forward 4 years, things have gone tits up at his current job. He's had a couple of run ins with colleagues and people in other depts. they've now decided he's a problem and are now finding "issues" with his work (which has never been an issue till now). So now he's off on the sick again, driving me absolutely bonkers because he's a lazy sod and doesn't actually want to spend his sick leave minding the kids, but is having to, because I refuse to send them to their grans unless their is an actual reason/need to do so.

He had a meeting today with his line manager, and the possibility of a "settlement with a decent reference" was discussed. Dh thinks if he returns to work from sick leave he may be looking at a possible disciplinary and a performance improvement setup.

He has some job apps in the pipeline, but nothing guaranteed.

I'm seriously pissed off! I just feel so fucking hacked off that were even in this situation yet again. Dh thinks I'm being unsympathetic and he should take the settlement. Apparently I'm being unreasonable because I don't seem to care about his mental health! The thing is, logically, I can see the argument for accepting the settlement offer, but it seems I'm married to a man who is so incapable of getting along with work colleagues that eventually he has to be hounded out of every place of work! He doesn't seem to see that he appears to be the problem! I bought all the "I'm being picked on" at the last 2 jobs, but seriously, 3 times?! I work in the same type of organisation, and in my experience, it's very unusual for people in our type of workplace to be "managed out the door", and yet he's managed it 3 times now!

He sounds like my mum. Job after job she would quit because so-and-so was difficult/a bully/hard to work with.

My poor dad had to pick up the pieces as she would never line up the next job first. We lived hand to mouth as it was.

I have no suggestions but I am so sorry he is leaving you in this situation. He really needs to suck it up and grow up and provide for his kids.

@Anyfucker I am such a fan of yours and you are always right on the money
OP I have no idea why you are still with your not so D'H'

ReanimatedSGB
That may be the case but OP has told us he is rude and obnoxious in his personal life.

Teddybear45
If he is rude, obnoxious and is quick to have an issue with others then he would be a terrible senior manager!
He doesn't have lots of good experience. He has a track record of walking when things get tough and no stickabikity.

He needs a reality check and to sort himself out, not a promotion.

Just to give an alternative perspective I have left three jobs in less than ideal circumstances

Me too. More than three in fact. My first every job was a Saturday job at Woolworths. They had two floors, closed one of them and got rid of 1/4 of staff including Saturday staff and I was one of the ones they chose to go. Probably because I used to moan about being on the till for 4 hour shifts and wanted to be on the record counter. Fair enough, shouldn't have moaned but I was only 15. I forgive myself for that!

Second time was my second "proper" job. I actually knew on day one I'd made a mistake going there. Stuck it out for a few months, found out they were going to get rid of me at the end of my probation, jumped before I was pushed, left next job after 5.5 years and left voluntarily. It was after that things started to go really wrong.

Next job let go just before had been there for a year in the days when you only needed a year's service to claim unfair dismissal. Face didn't fit.

In next job face did fit but just wasn't very good at job. Left after just over 2 years with generous settlement.

Next job - was there for 4 years. Uneasy relationship with boss from day one, eventually left, again with generous settlement.

Next job, there for 5.5 years - left voluntarily after poor performance review that I didn't think I could come back from because boss had changed my job role to things I couldn't do well. I had had very good performance reviews before that.

Moved to another job, job was good, but I left because I didn't like hours or commute, now self-employed, which probably fits a few theories on this thread. Fortunate to be mortgage-free and able to earn enough to tick over.

But my husband has never been anything but supportive and kind despite me being the main breadwinner.

@daisychain01 you’ve rather aggressively missed my point- there doesn’t need to be a winnable case for an employee to take legal action. Nothing to stop them taking the case right through until they lose

And many companies, including all the ones I’ve worked for, will bung them a couple of grand to get rid of the future hassle of responding to legal action

I agree that the companies will sometimes avoid the whole lengthy warnings and disciplinary process and just give the employee money in lieu of notice, and get them to sign a form, takes the hassle out and saves the employee having being fired on their record.

The fact this dude is having it done repeatedly and he goes "off sick" for months before it occurs, and softens thr op up to expecting him to leave, would indicate to me there is more going on, that he is more likely on gardening leave following an internal investigation and will likely try to negotiate with them to leave voluntarily so he's not fired.

I suspect there is more going on here than he is telling her.

I know a couple of guys who did this, told their wives they were off sick, when in reality they were suspended due to an internal investigation. Then spun the poor wife a line about why they left and signed the form. When in reality they were going to be terminated for a grievance that they didn't want thr wife to know about.

From what's been written by OP I'd suggest that your husband could be suffering from quite serious mental health issues such as depression. I know CBT was mentioned in relation to other issues so I'm sure there is some acknowledgement at least that things aren't all right.

It's easy to paint him as a bad guy or say that if he is suffering that he should get help but that is incredibly difficult for some people, especially for some men.

He's been painted as a problem or as narcissistic with very little in the way of evidence to point to that which is disappointing but to be expected on this forum when a man is not 100% perfect.

If it was me I'd be doing everything I could to support him and his decision going forwards. He hasn't got support at work, take that away at home and he's unlikely to improve his situation imo.

Why is it no matter what someone does, someone always pops up and diagnoses mental illness as a justification . Seriously. What's with that.

There are just some arseholes in the world you know.

This one just sounds as though he's so unpleasant that sooner or later, the company decides to get rid. It's not always like that though Bluntness. There was a thread yesterday where the OP's DH was clearly losing his marbles. They were on holiday. Going off in rages for no reason, threatening, self harming... The MNers were advising the OP to fly home without him! (He might have been an arsehole as well!)

From what's been written by OP I'd suggest that your husband could be suffering from quite serious mental health issues such as depression. I know CBT was mentioned in relation to other issues so I'm sure there is some acknowledgement at least that things aren't all right.

It is very strongly implied in the OP that this is a person who goes off sick with stress as a way to avoid work when he realises that he has alienated his colleagues (by being "rude", "patronising" or "obnoxious") or when issues with his performance are identified. I have come across quite a few people who do this and it makes it very difficult for people with genuine Mental Health Issues to be taken seriously and supported in the workplace. He's been seen repeatedly by the GP in order to be signed off with work related stress and GP's will often throw out the suggestion of CBT because it's seen as a bit of a 'cure-all' by the NHS and can be done relatively cheaply online/over the phone/using self-help resources but the fact that it was mentioned doesn't necessarily mean that OP's DH has "serious mental health issues".

Justification Bluntness?

It seems that some posters just like to encourage divorce or breaking up relationships without having anything like enough knowledge of a situation to justify that position. Maybe their own experiences are either so perfect or so crappy that this seems the only option in the face of a setback, who knows.

It's really important for a lot of OPs in a discussion like this to have balance and for all possibilities to be discussed and contemplated.

So yes, if I see lots of indicators that someone could have mental health issues I feel it's important to say that and not to discount it.

By the time someone comes here to post, often they've already worked themselves up considerably, they are often at the end of their tether and are looking for answers. They are too close to the issue to fully recognise what's going on and of course they are often frustrated and angry at their partner and as such may not always show them in the best light.

Lot's of what OP has said has been speculation about what happens at work, what isn't speculation is what she sees with her own eyes and from those descriptions there is no doubt that poor mental health could be a factor.
Of course it doesn't mean it is, this man could just be a lazy prick, but if that's the case OP will leave him eventually as she's already thinking this way.

And Cheeky fuckery, to discount potential MH issues just because some people are twats is just as daft as dismissing him just being a twat because some people have MH issues. But then, perhaps you're never wrong despite having limited knowledge of a subject?

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide, which can point you to expert advice and support.

The reason HQ add the above caveat at the top of the Relationships Board is because posters are giving opinion based solely on the information provided. The fact this is in AIBU means there is no such caveat and people are at liberty to give their opinions, impressions, fwiw ideas whatever.

It's an imperfect situation for these complex human relationship issues that span across AIBU, Relationships and Employment Issues. Quite frankly it's a systematic flaw to post any of this stuff on here, it's uncontrolled and unvalidated, so it's always assumed that the OP has a choice whether or not to listen to advice or opinion given.

There's no point people flagellating each other, we're probably all wide of the mark - the OP may even be inaccurate to disguise identities etc.

He is rude, obnoxious and patronising to the people in his private life, so I can well imagine him being so in his work one too.

That is a narcissistic trait.

With a narcissist there is frequently a cycle of putting colleagues or loved ones on a pedestal and then devaluing them and making it clear that the narcissist feels only contempt for them.

And Cheeky fuckery, to discount potential MH issues just because some people are twats is just as daft as dismissing him just being a twat because some people have MH issues. But then, perhaps you're never wrong despite having limited knowledge of a subject?

There's no need to be so defensive. I didn't dismiss anyone as "just a twat" and I certainly didn't say anything to suggest I think I'm "never wrong" so I've no idea where you got that from. You posted that you think there are indicators of "serious MH issues" and I offered an alternative point of view. Is that not allowed?

As for my "limited knowledge on the subject", I'm a qualified Mental Health professional, have recieved treatment from Mental Health services myself and have caring responsibilities for a relative who has a Psychotic illness. I'm not suggesting for a moment that any of this means my opinion is more valid than anyone else's on this thread, I just think it's a bit hypocritical to accuse other posters of being dismissive and then go on to make baseless assumptions about their level of knowledge and experience.

The way narcissistic devaluation works in the workplace is thus:

First the N is delighted to have won recognition for his gifts and talents (i.e. been hired) from people he considers to be gifted, talented, gods walking the earth - at last he has found his peers.
Then he gradually realises that he is expected to perform according to someone else's standards, be accountable for his performance, rub along with his colleagues, observe rules. Other people seem to be doing better then him. His specialness is not cherished and celebrated.
In his mind this is proof that he was mistaken about the gods - they were ordinary humans after all, and therefore not worthy of any respect from him because he is so massively superior to them.

Absolutely mathanxiety

Wow, mathanxiety. That is so insightful.

For it to happen once would be very unfortunate and anyone could easily accept that the fault was with the employer or 50/50 fault on both sides.

Three times just takes the piss - he is the common denominator in all of this - he needs to look very honestly at the way he comes across!

My sister is similar - late twenties, left school at 16 and has had a small handful of jobs (4 I think) - all of them she has either been 'let go' or she has quit because 'the boss is shit/the conditions are right' etc. She left one after 3 days!! In a place where it is well known for having very, very low staff turnover - there hadn't been a vacancy there for about 5 years! Trouble is, she does have a poor attitude to work/following orders and the issue is her rather than the employers.

You and your husband need to work a plan out - do you want to stay with him? What can he do now to get another job? Perhaps something less stressful?

I don't know how to fix this. But something has to give, since he can't keep doing this - sooner or later the good references will stop. And you don't want him sitting around at home for lengthy periods, because his narrative of self-justification will not meet with any obstacles there, except you, and you'll get the brunt of his nastiness.
If he won't do anything to improve himself, I think one of you will need to pack your bags.

PumpkinPie2016
I agree. There comes a point when the common denominator is the professional victim.

Heaven help the poor kids if he becomes a SAHP. Rude, obnoxious, patronising to people in his private life - I wouldnt give him sole charge of children.

It sounds like my DH’s chequered employment history.
In the 20 years that we’ve lived here with the DCs he’s been made redundant twice, sacked twice, made redundant twice and paid off once.

Each job loss is usually followed by several months of unemployment.

He’s been in his current job for 6 months now and starting to make noises that its not going well so it’s only a matter of time before the inevitable occurs.

He works in IT and is in his late fifties, thankfully I’m the main breadwinner. Have 3 years to go before DD leaves Uni and only a few years on top of that until mortgage is paid off. I hope he manages to
keep working until then.

He’s doesn’t enjoy the best of health and has a disability which no doubt contributes to his unemployability.

There is also the factor of what skills the 'difficult' person has - because some people really aren't suited to being employees and are going to be better off and happier working for themselves. It isn't necessarily a personal failing to dislike taking orders from someone who is obviously less intelligent and less competent than you - many people despise their bosses with good reason and many jobs are needlessly stressful because senior management are chancers, profiteers or bullies.
OP liked this man enough to marry him so he may have some merit. It might be worth OP considering in the light of what she knows of her own H whether he would do better working for himself and whether his 'rudeness' is inherent or a product of stress.

Everyone who ends up married to a narcissist likes them well enough initially, just as every employer who employs this man has considered him a match for their needs at the time they hired him. True colours reveal themselves though, and the narcissist can be counted on to devalue.