DH being "pushed" out of yet another job

[needahusbandtransplant]

Hi folks. Sorry, this is going to be long but I'm trying to give a full enough backstory so as not to drip feed. But I need to know if I'm being a heartless bitch, or perfectly reasonable.

So DH and I have been together for 16 years and have 4 kids.

His last 2 jobs have been fraught with stress, anxiety and performance improvement issues, with the last one culminating in a payoff to disappear quietly with the promise of a decent reference. This was after several months of him being off sick with stress.

We had anticipated this ending and about a year before, had downsized our property. I wasn't happy about this but I stood by him and, having only 2 kids at that time, this was reasonably easy to do (the downsizing that is). The new house was a bit of a shithole tbh (although in a good area) but after a few months of unemployment he managed to get a new job. Things were looking up, his new colleagues seemed nice and normal and we were able to do up and extend our home and had 2 more kids.

Fast forward 4 years, things have gone tits up at his current job. He's had a couple of run ins with colleagues and people in other depts. they've now decided he's a problem and are now finding "issues" with his work (which has never been an issue till now). So now he's off on the sick again, driving me absolutely bonkers because he's a lazy sod and doesn't actually want to spend his sick leave minding the kids, but is having to, because I refuse to send them to their grans unless their is an actual reason/need to do so.

He had a meeting today with his line manager, and the possibility of a "settlement with a decent reference" was discussed. Dh thinks if he returns to work from sick leave he may be looking at a possible disciplinary and a performance improvement setup.

He has some job apps in the pipeline, but nothing guaranteed.

I'm seriously pissed off! I just feel so fucking hacked off that were even in this situation yet again. Dh thinks I'm being unsympathetic and he should take the settlement. Apparently I'm being unreasonable because I don't seem to care about his mental health! The thing is, logically, I can see the argument for accepting the settlement offer, but it seems I'm married to a man who is so incapable of getting along with work colleagues that eventually he has to be hounded out of every place of work! He doesn't seem to see that he appears to be the problem! I bought all the "I'm being picked on" at the last 2 jobs, but seriously, 3 times?! I work in the same type of organisation, and in my experience, it's very unusual for people in our type of workplace to be "managed out the door", and yet he's managed it 3 times now!

But like everything on Mumsnet (or any forum) we never know the full story do we? How do we actually know what the husband is like at work or what his work place is like?

I’m not saying the OP is making it up but a lot of the time people are. Or at least embellishing.

I refuse to get emotionally involved in internet posts but I almost feel sorry for the husband here!

🤷🏻‍♀️

Not helpful, but I could not be with a man like this. You have my utmost sympathy. I know several women with husbands like this; in and out of jobs all the time, lack of financial security, sometimes starting one new business after another, (like a hot dog van, or selling stuff on ebay, or a market stall,) putting the family's financial position (and home) at risk, and sometimes causing bankruptcy, causing his wife massive stress, (and her having to work lots of extra hours to make ends meet.)

And every time these men lose a job, it's ALWAYS someone else's fault.

I would be making moves to leave if it were me.

Sorry @needahusbandtransplant but I have no other advice. Your husband is a feckless, immature, selfish pillock. But you know that don't you?

But like everything on Mumsnet (or any forum) we never know the full story do we?

So that makes it fair game for people just to pick completely groundless theories out their arse? Honestly, with the flurry of alternative suggestions this is one of the most bizarre threads I've read in a while.

The most likely explanation is, of course, that he's a lazy, arrogant chancer and, as a PP said, has got more so as he got older.
Just in case, though: is he in an industry that features a lot of high pressure, coke habits, long hours and 'banter'? Sometimes people in these industries find the general aggressive and demanding nature of these workplaces harder to take as they get older; they feel like they are losing their touch and sometimes this makes them more arrogant and rude because they are terrified.
Does he have the sort of skills that would make working for himself feasible?
(I couldn't cope with a 'normal' office job now; I've got a variety of income streams which keep me and DS fed and housed, just about, but I will never work regular hours in a regular office again.)

Basketofkittens
We don't know for sure and as ever on threads people reply via the lens of their own experiences.
I've witnessed horrendous workplace bullying and supported friends through it. Some workplaces are toxic.

If I reflect over the people I've met who've left under settlements or have had repeat issue at work:
One was a lovely person who was really poor at their job. They'd had additional training and support but they were ineffective. They went off with stress and left. The pattern repeated itself. I felt sorry for them.
All the rest were either obnoxious to work with, difficult to managers, bitchy or shit stirrers, ineffective in their job and sometimes deliberately lax in their job (so they could make allegations of bullying when challenged), spoke negatively of previous workplaces, always seemed to be the victim, there was always an excuse.

On balance of probability, someone who is an arse in their personal life and doesn't step up who has issues in the workplace is probably an arse at work too.

Sometimes people can not see they are the problem. DB had several jobs where he was “bullied” or “pushed out” I gave him a job and pretty soon once best behaviour wore off I saw the reality. He was rude, lazy and totally belligerent towards everyone. If he could find a way to not work, he would. In the end they offered him money to leave it was so embarrassing for me. But I know he happily tells people he was bullied in this job too and the subsequent two jobs he’s had since. These types will always play victim while continuing to make others working lives a misery.

Once again I live in a parallel universe to mn. I have never seen anyone offered a settlement to leave a job (and unless you were their immediate manager how would I even know about such a settlement). Usually if someone is a problem it is evident before 2 years have elapsed and they are shown the door with no sweetener.
I think many employers take the piss though and anyone who stands up for their legal rights or anyone who raises a grievance is labelled a troublemaker and managed out either by restructuring or making their job unbearable.

And I have never seen anyone fired for poor performance- always managed out

You can't just stop going to work because you're stressed!!! No wonder they want to get rid of him. What's the point of him being employed if he's not actually there?

He can keep running all he likes but he really needs to wake up and smell the roses..... no matter where he runs to next unless he changes himself he will be in exactly the same situation as he is now and has been previously.

He needs to go to work, face the music, apologise and try his best to make an amends but that isn't something you can make him see, only he can make that decision. Sorry that you have to be the one putting up with it.

My mil is exactly like this , she was 'hounded ' out of jobs and bullied when in reality she has a very difficult personality and is basically a narcissist so everything is always someone else's fault. I imagine being married to him must be very draining .

Ime settlements are quite common in these scenarios because it ends the possibility of legal action which people like the OPs are very quick to take. They don’t really need to have a case, the company still have the expense and admin of responding to court action. Easier to bung him a few grand and get him to sign a settlement. Gets rid of him quickly too

No, let's get factual here, not anecdotal - it's a misnomer that an employee doesn't need a case. Of course they do. It doesn't take admin and solicitors to assess a problem employee's performance and tell them factually if they aren't meeting their targets, that they are disruptive, and they need to part company. Without 2 years' service to have earned full employment rights, they will get statutory or contractual notice, and may get a neutral factual reference but they don't get that in their hand, they have to get a new job offer first. If they have a poor attendance record an employer is entitled to disclose that, if they are asked.

It's important not to generalise, each case is different, but companies don't just dish out thousands on a whim, employment law is in place for the employer, just as much as for the employee.

@tigerlily111 amazing isn't it, how many 'experts' in this parallel cloud-cuckoo land of MN think employers are tripping over themselves to whip out their cheque book and dish out the cash. As if!

Ffs can we stop asking if every rude obnoxious arsehole has undiagnosed autism? I don't know any autistic people that are so rude they lose 3 jobs over it. Some people really are just rude because they're dicks!

OP, I don't blame you for being at the end of your tether with this. Performance managing people out of their job is so common but you'd think that someone would realise they're the problem after the second time at least. Is self employment an option for him? Although I wouldn't want to work for someone like him or hire someone like him, he needs to realise his attitude needs to change no matter where he goes from here.

This guy sounds manipulative. He can clearly turn on the charm sufficiently when needed: he seems to have been well able to get job offers, and he was convincing enough to get the OP to have more kids with him.

Then, once he's got his feet well under the table (in his working life or his private life), he starts showing his wankerish side and expects everyone to accommodate that.

If finances are the only thing making the OP stay with him, and he is losing yet another job, then the writing seems to be on the wall.

BTW I think it's weird and unhelpful that there are so many "why did you have more kids with him" comments on here. It's hardly unheard-of for people to have kids with a person and realise only later that their co-parent is a dick. There are threads on here every day where that's happened. Plus... what's the point of asking that question, exactly? It's like someone asking for directions and being told, "Well, I wouldn't start from here."

I work in the civil service, people who are rude obnoxious and not team players just ge5 shuffled round. Causing either the reasonable people to shuffle off (I’ve done this twice to get away from awful people who they won’t sack). Or a concerted effort to move them on again.

If he doesn’t want t9 be self employed he could try government.

Op what sort of settlement is it, ie what size?

The reason I'm asking is I wonder if he's off sick, or if more likely he's been suspended pending and investigation and the settlement is simply in lieu of notice?

In my experience also poor employees are just shuffled round, he'd have to be intolerably bad and his behaviour appalling for employers to move to this continually, or he is doing something that is causing them to need to terminate, aggression, sexual harassment, bullying,racism, that sort of thing,

He is rude, obnoxious and patronising to the people in his private life, so I can well imagine him being so in his work one too.

So it is down to him then.

I'd be looking for an exit from him. He has no redeeming qualities from your posts.

If he doesn’t want t9 be self employed he could try government.

We don't want him thanks!

Op one thing that comes across is you sound really switched on, and a great parent.
You deserve a better life before he drags you and your kids down with him.
You've got bags of personality, and your kids will grow up loved.

It must be bloody awful to be stuck in a situation like this, I hope you can find a way forward. X

Op Can I suggest your dh contacts an employment solicitor for free preliminary phonecall before he signs anything . If his employer is offering a settlement it may mean they think he does have grounds for a decent case against them.
As to the poster who says people should go to work when signed off with work related stress/anxiety/depression, I suggest you and the op educate yourselves a little about mental health issues!

There are jobs (and whole industries) where being 'rude and obnoxious' actually means 'not accepting management treating you like shit'.
But there are also people who think they are wonderful when in fact they are barely competent and can't even be bothered to be polite to the colleagues who are forever having to pick up the pieces for them.

My partner has had to leave numerous jobs because of clashes of personalities or various other reasons that you might feel sympathy for in isolation. He can’t take authority and he is also a difficult person to communicate with outside work. My sympathy waned quite some time ago and am preparing myself to separate from him. It is a bit sad because he is a good Dad but he isn’t a good partner and I have lost respect for him now. No real advice but I have noticed jobs where he is his own boss have suited him much better even though they didn’t pay well or work out in the end.

Mum well done for making that decision. It's very apparent that you didn't take it lightly. You have a right to enjoy your life.

I admire you very much. Best wishes to you. You have made a great decision.

In your DH’s case a milennial strategy of not working more than 2 years in a job might actually help to boost his wages. He could also try going for more senior management positions if he has the experience.