DH being "pushed" out of yet another job

[needahusbandtransplant]

Hi folks. Sorry, this is going to be long but I'm trying to give a full enough backstory so as not to drip feed. But I need to know if I'm being a heartless bitch, or perfectly reasonable.

So DH and I have been together for 16 years and have 4 kids.

His last 2 jobs have been fraught with stress, anxiety and performance improvement issues, with the last one culminating in a payoff to disappear quietly with the promise of a decent reference. This was after several months of him being off sick with stress.

We had anticipated this ending and about a year before, had downsized our property. I wasn't happy about this but I stood by him and, having only 2 kids at that time, this was reasonably easy to do (the downsizing that is). The new house was a bit of a shithole tbh (although in a good area) but after a few months of unemployment he managed to get a new job. Things were looking up, his new colleagues seemed nice and normal and we were able to do up and extend our home and had 2 more kids.

Fast forward 4 years, things have gone tits up at his current job. He's had a couple of run ins with colleagues and people in other depts. they've now decided he's a problem and are now finding "issues" with his work (which has never been an issue till now). So now he's off on the sick again, driving me absolutely bonkers because he's a lazy sod and doesn't actually want to spend his sick leave minding the kids, but is having to, because I refuse to send them to their grans unless their is an actual reason/need to do so.

He had a meeting today with his line manager, and the possibility of a "settlement with a decent reference" was discussed. Dh thinks if he returns to work from sick leave he may be looking at a possible disciplinary and a performance improvement setup.

He has some job apps in the pipeline, but nothing guaranteed.

I'm seriously pissed off! I just feel so fucking hacked off that were even in this situation yet again. Dh thinks I'm being unsympathetic and he should take the settlement. Apparently I'm being unreasonable because I don't seem to care about his mental health! The thing is, logically, I can see the argument for accepting the settlement offer, but it seems I'm married to a man who is so incapable of getting along with work colleagues that eventually he has to be hounded out of every place of work! He doesn't seem to see that he appears to be the problem! I bought all the "I'm being picked on" at the last 2 jobs, but seriously, 3 times?! I work in the same type of organisation, and in my experience, it's very unusual for people in our type of workplace to be "managed out the door", and yet he's managed it 3 times now!

“Now try and remember to take your anti-arsehole pills.”

Sorry but 🤣

What's the point in saying 'why did you have 4 DCs with him if he is rude and obnoxious' blah blah. I'm sure the OP is wondering that herself because this sounds like the straw that's broken the camels back... 3rd time booted out of work.

And sometimes things are right and obviously it has been OK for the OP, I'm sure he's not been a total arsehole with her all the time. She sounds sensible but a build up of his behaviour has led her to a realisation that the cumulative effect of his behaviour is now not on.

Having said all that OP, I'd be fucking furious, as you are too. My DH had a whinging time hating work and that did my head in enough, without him losing his job.

That’s a very thought provoking post fucked. But I wonder. Would your partner, friends etc describe you outside work as the Op described her DH?

@Anyfucker Thread has moved on a bit since your comment about ASD bollocks. While I agree that it is often used as an excuse for shitty behaviour, I did have a spectrum disordered boss like this for many years...utter nightmare, but I loved the job so learned to manage him. I speak as an ASD parent and can see how totally controlling and unbearable my son can be with others. It is a possibility. It's not an excuse though...I don't and won't put up with that shit.

@tssdncop no not at all, but I imagine some of them do wonder why the fuck it keeps happening to me!

If he's had run ins with colleagues and is off sick, they'll be preparing all the paperwork to part company on the basis of poor performance

I have only seen poor performers managed out on the back of a 'restructuring' or settlement. Far too difficult, time consuming and prolonged to do the performance route (and often leaves the employer open to legal action)

I don't understand why you went on to have two more children given what happened.

fucked in that case I’d bet they just see it as horrid luck. Sounds as though you’ve turned shit to gold though with starting your own business. Good luck to you x

'traits' that people have in their 20's become
'habits' in their 30's
'ingrained' in their 40's
'omg' in their 50's
etc etc

People do get worse over the years (and you change too)

My current challenge with DH is I've realised as he got older that he has (undiagnosed) ADHD, so all the fun things/ spontaneous holidays / trips out decided at the last minute we did in our 20's become a serious drag when older with kids, as it's impossible then DH gets grumpy. DH has seriously itchy feet and getting worse.

However if "
He is rude, obnoxious and patronising to the people in his private life" it is likely he has got worse over the years and may be now intolerable....

Out of most of people I know, everyone has had a couple of jobs that they had to leave due to bullying or awful managers or the workplace being too stressful. Working in a variety of organisations over a 40 year plus career there are going to be jobs you don’t gel with and most of us will meet bullying managers who would be happy to get rid of us.

I’ve had quite a few jobs including temping and contract work. I had to leave one job in the civil service before I was PIPd and my line manager actively wanted to get rid of me. I’ve worked in places with 60% turnovers and where staff cried at their desks on a regular basis. I’ve been signed off once with stress in my working career.

I’ve also worked in decent places with nice, normal people. Pretty sure the problem isn’t me! But people can have bad luck and there are so many crap jobs out there.

It must be very frustrating for you OP. Your DH obviously can’t see what he’s doing that is rubbing his work colleagues up the wrong way and until this is addressed will be an ongoing scenario.
I know someone exactly like your DH and it always follows the same pattern.
At the moment said person has been given a position where they work alone. As another poster suggested maybe self employed would be an option.

I mentioned why have more children recently when his character was already known. Not at all because she’s made her bed and lie in it at all. Or that she can send the children back. But because 4 kids is more than most have and the reasons why to have the last two recently would I suspected say a lot about either him or why the OP is still there. And it did.

Op finances is not a good reason to stay medium term. I would be looking to work out what an exit could look like. Because I really doubt he will change.

Settlement offers come when an employer thinks the employee would probably have good grounds for an unfair dismissal claim and wants it to go away quietly. If they have an audit trail of productivity issues, behavioural issues, complaints from colleagues of somebody being boorish, arrogant and verbally aggressive/sarcastic or lazy, especially if they have reacted to manager input aggressively, then they are likely to dig their heels in and say 'go on, then' if somebody threatens Unfair Dismissal/Disability Discrimination claims.

After all, even in the most obvious cases that are fought, it takes years to get to tribunal. In that time, the person has to disclose they were subject to capability procedures in every application. It will be disclosed by the employer if contacted for a reference (and most places insist upon the most recent employers for various reasons, including safeguarding). His sickness absence will be disclosed. He can't lie and not include them on his work history as the hostile environment rules insist upon checks including his P60/P45 as ID.

And he won't be able to claim benefit as he made himself intentionally unemployed by getting fired, whether by leaving without a settlement (his own choice to leave, they expect you to hold on) or by actually being dismissed,

He's not being pushed out. They've been lumbered with a lazy grifter - and by now, they probably know he's got form for it.

My dad was like this. He left the army and basically went through a string of jobs. They were all fairly high flying posts but he managed to get everyone’s backs up and each time it was everyone else’s fault. Everyone was an arsehole, unreasonable etc etc. My poor mother worked full time and had three young kids to ferry around the place whilst never knowing whether she’d get home from work and find that my father had walked away from yet another job (jumping before he was pushed). Now I am a parent myself, I can start to understand how unbelievably hard that must have been for my mum. My dad then went and had an affair (and blamed that on my mum too). Nothing ever his fault.

Interestingly he went off and retrained as a ‘trade’ and was mostly working by himself. This seemed to be a much better option for him, though he is still rude and judgemental about his clients.

I have now ended up going non contact with him because his behaviour has just become so rude and twattish that I can no longer cope with if. What someone upthread said about behaviour getting worse over time definitely rings true for me.

No @JanMeyer I don't think that. I work supporting people in the workplace and have dealt with plenty of people with an ASD diagnosis who are not rude, obnoxious and patronising, but also plenty who frankly are. No offence intended.

Out of most of people I know, everyone has had a couple of jobs that they had to leave due to bullying or awful managers or the workplace being too stressful.
That's different to leaving under a cloud multiple times and being the common denominator in all of them.

Settlement offers come when an employer thinks the employee would probably have good grounds for an unfair dismissal claim and wants it to go away quietly.
In my experience settlement can be those situations.
It's much more likely that it's paying someone to leave because you're fed up with dealing with them and want them out as soon as possible.
A number of head teachers 'disappear' following a bad ofsted. I've seen a few ineffective teachers go off on stress the second performance issues are raise and they also vanish only to appear at another school a few months later.
Friends in other sectors say similar.

Talk about victim blaming! If your child had been bullied in 3 different schools, it woukd be his own fault? Far from clear that your dh is to blame. There are very many shocking employers out thdrey especially in low paid jobs.
I remember a gp friend telling me workplace bullying is rampant. ( The worst professions to suffer workplace bullying being teaching and the police.)
People have different capacities to handle crap and your dh doesn't put up with it at all.
I think you should be supporting your dh into moving into self employment or at least anothet field.

I feel a bit sorry for OP's husband.

I presume no-one really wants to be rude or obnoxious. We all want to be liked and respected and interact with others well don't we?

Why do you think he is like that OP?
Did he have a lousy upbringing?
Could he have ASD and not pick up on people correctly?
Is he in a job he feels is beneath him so he thinks he knows better how things should be done?
Does he have MH issues as a result of work stress?
Could he be ill to be so obnoxious and rude. Is he aggressive? Could he have a brain tumour?

You fell in love with this man and you don't sound like a stupid person so what was he like when you met him and, if he is different now, what caused the change?

Try and see if you can get to the bottom of the problem once and for all. He is probably feeling very unwanted and unloved at losing another job. He probably feels like he is lurching from one crisis to the next.

Jesus. I have no words to counter the man-pandering I have just witnessed

I think it’s probably a crippling lack of self confidence and feelings of inadequacy - most arrogance is really

I dated one of these. Be bloody careful.

The pattern of evasion moves from 'bullying' to 'illness' to accusing other people of sexual harassment or violence.

Professional victims are a liability and serial accusers to boot - that's prob why DH's firm wants rid.

I reckon this will carry on. Once they have accused, and got what he wanted out of it - invariably being paid to watch daytime telly - they move on to do it again. If you divorce, warn the lawyer you're married to a serial accuser. His work record proves it, don't worry about being believed.

The only thing keeping me here is finances

Ok... you are calling yourself a fool... stop being a fool and a dependent fool at that, stand on your own feet. Much easier to support 4 kids on your own than 4 kids and an unemployed lazy husband.

Having said that, a bit of practical advice, if you are going to split, do not leave him at home taking care of most of the childcare. He will become the resident parent and the one with more rights to keep the house.

Oh look, another one who thinks autism equates to a person being "rude, obnoxious and patronising."
Seriouly, when are people on MN going to stop equating every negative personality trait with being autistic? Do you ever imagine how autistic people feel reading crap like this, how it feels to have your disability equated to rudeness/selfishness and basically just being a horrible human being in general?
I'm not sure I want to know what some of you think autism is.

@JanMeyer

Thankyou. despair of this stuff on mumsnet, drives me crackers.

Please check yourselves before you post about 'undiagnosed ASD' whenever someone is behaving like w@nker.

tigerlily111
We aren't talking about a child being bullied.

We are talking about a grown adult in the workplace who is unpleasant, rude and obnoxious in his private life and appears to repeatedly have issues with colleagues and managers.

Sometimes we need to stop making excuses and consider that maybe, just maybe, Some people are arseholes and behave in a way that's not ok.

I presume no-one really wants to be rude or obnoxious. We all want to be liked and respected and interact with others well don't we?

I think when people are obnoxious to others it's because they have a misplaced sense of superiority. They don't care about people liking them or respecting them because they see them as so totally inferior that their opinions are worthless.