To think medicine isn't a great career choice

[Medicmog]

Growing up, I dreamed of being a doctor. I was bright and motivated, and worked hard at school, and did lots of volunteering, extra curricular activities, and work experience, to gain admission to medical school. It was encouraged by my school and parents, as something worthwhile to aspire to.

I worked hard to complete six years of medical school, while non-medical friends graduated after three or four years and walked into highly paid jobs (generally £40k+). Two or three extra years studying, and I started on little over half this (plus an antisocial hours allowance on some jobs). Fine, I never went into medicine for the money.

What I find difficult is that doctors (and moreover all public sector workers) are so vulnerable due to current politics, public confidence in the progression is at an all time low, bullying in the progression is rife, and it is such an absolutely thankless job, where your employer treats you appallingly.

I have been injured at work, due to my workplaces negligence, and they illegally docked my pay subsequently, despite my continued working. I have been sick, and had consultants say they don't care about occupational health recommendations.

I had a serious illness, and when I emailed work, together with a sick note, I was told that it would be a great inconvenience, and to get back as soon as possible.

I have felt unwell at work and told that I wasn't allowed to sit down.

I have been shouted at and bullied by colleagues.

I have been threatened by patients and relatives.

I have been pressured to do physical work while pregnant that endangered my health.

When I went on maternity leave I didn't get so much as an email wishing me well, let alone a card.

My children have suffered from the long antisocial hours, including the significant amount of unpaid overtime I have done.

I'm at breaking point, and genuinely dreading going back to work after maternity leave. Why would I want to leave my baby, in order to pay more for childcare than I earn, and be treated like shit?

I realise this is a self indulgent post, but in some ways it is cathartic to share. I wouldn't ever recommend someone to join this profession, and I think young people considering it should be given a balanced perspective.

All is not rosy in GP world. The days are very long every day, staffing is in crisis, many practices cannot recruit so existing doctors are getting spread thinner and thinner with rising patient demand. more work is pushed out of hospitals into primary care with nowhere for it to go. Medicine is getting more complicated and specialist, but the support and services to get help are being slashed right left and centre. Locums are doing well but have little stability and even less peer support than regular GPs.

Working in hospital medicine, in an acute speciality, is very difficult if not 100% healthy. I have a number of chronic health conditions, all of which are exacerbated by the job. I have every expectation that it will kill me. But I'm a bonkers paediatrician who is in love with the job. The NHS is a crap employer for people with chronic conditions. Great for acute illnesses, but it can't get it's head around the concept of not breaking its staff, so they can keep working for it.

Change specialities.
Choose a family friendly option... Occupational medice for example desparate for trainee
Public health
Medical journslism
Dermatology

I also disagree with you assumptions that graduates walk into 40k jobs and have easier lives and you started on half this.

My starting salary in 1994 was 19k as a junior doc and I got overtime paid at half rates. No extra payments.

I have had a fantastic career in medicine travelled the world, done multiple different jobs, and had a good standard of living.

I would never put anyone off but it takes resilience and toughness.
I hear juniors struggling all the time and wonder why back when I was a house officer doing on average 80 hrs a week we didn't have the same issues over burn out, rotas, stress etc?
We just got on with it.

I work in a hospital and I always feel very sorry for the junior doctors with the shit I see them go through. Not uncommon to see them have a little cry. I definitely couldn’t do it so admire people who do!

I’m sure you are right. But many of your complaints are faced by non medical workers too.

Dh was a consultant until he had a severe mental health illness...had to leave the career he'd initially loved and had worked so hard for
Fortunately retrained in a totally different career and is much happier and is now earning much more than his colleagues as a self employed Barrister
We haven't advised our dcs to enter the medical profession

Theredjellybean

We worked in teams (firms) not ever changing shift patterns. There were fewer treatments, and less to know. We lived on site, with no lengthy cross region commutes. We lived with colleagues, so could support each other. Parent/family expectations were less fuelled by politicians/media. We didn't have the endless crap of eportfolio. We had much more flexibility in how we progressed through the stages of our careers. And most of all, we didn't tell anyone when we burned out. But we all knew people who had killed themselves, or disappeared, or "come off the road tired". It was bloody crap. Doesn't mean we should belittle the next generation.

GP is not what it used to be. Lots of rubbish dumped on you by secondary care and sometimes you wonder if you're a doctor or a social worker. You're simply not paid enough to do half of the workload. Locum GPs earn good money at the price of job stability, career progression and support.

However I would say the grass is not always greener - I know lots of people earning better wages than medics (same age as me on £300k/year in finance compared to my £40k in the NHS for example) but they also complain about their jobs and generally have a less than ideal work life balance.

Having worked as a financial adviser for the BMA I would say your situation is not the norm OP. Not the way you have been treated that us. Also I think you are being a bit melodramatic......not getting an email or a card when on mat leave. Oh dear.....must gave upset you tremendously.

As for the pay. Top grade Consultant is on approx £100k pa basic. Then there is the (contracted) overtime = £10pa. Then any excellence awards.....these start at around £3k pa. Many Consultants have 2 or 3. Add this all up & its not far shy of £120k pa. GP's are paid totally differently but again usually earn around £120k pa......some over £150k pa.

Then there us the pension scheme
Yes, its now very expensive but at age 60-65 you can still retire on £45k pa plus close to £150k tax free lump sum.

Obviously money isn't everything but you did .mention your graduate friends. Unless they went into law or banking I doubt many will be earning what you are at age 40.

Thank you nocoolnamesleft

I know hours used to be worse, but at the same time, like you said, lots of other things were better.

'Just get on with it' is a really dangerous message. It blames doctors for all the failings in the NHS. This focus on resilience ignores that the system is broken. It demeans those who are facing difficulties, and is partly why the suicide rate is so high within the profession.

@Theredjellybean

Attitudes like yours that we should get on with it are part of the problem!

I planned to commit suicide when I was going through a trust investigation and having to go to coroners; I was found in the end to have done fuck all wrong but got treated like guilty until proven innocent. A brand new trainee in the specialty and I was so isolated and alone- it didn't matter that I’d followed advice from my seniors.

On the other hand things have got better now I’m through the other side. I do think that in terms of work life balance psychiatry is great and I had great support from occupational health- when I admitted how things had got I was off the on call rota before you could say coco.

GP is really not the easy road; but that said it’s quick training, three years and then you could work three days a week as salaried and easily make quick moves into management/medicolegal/research/public health.

I’m thinking that most jobs are pretty crap, some worse than others.

Depends very much on the specialty. Once you reach consultant level your salary will massively leapfrog most of your medic peers and even with the dire tax position the pension is in at the moment, it’s still a great deal.

had the snip It's interesting you say you worked for the BMA. I was a member and contacted them each time I had these difficulties. They did precisely nothing, despite agreeing that the way I was treated was illegal.

I think the BMA is part of the problem, as they are utterly appalling as a trade union.

Other doctors that I have met, friends, and those on social media, all have similar stories, to varying degrees. Most also say that they have contacted the BMA, and that the BMA was as useful as a chocolate teapot.

The pension scheme isn't what it once was, and many won't make it to being a consultant. I doubt I will do.

There are problems in General Practice but it can be a much better work life balance and a lot of it is very rewarding. I have known some of my patients for 15 years and I love the follow up and that satisfaction of making a difference to their lives. Definitely give it some thought.

drfoxtrot that's great to hear.

And yeah consultancy is allegedly the holy grail with this great pay, but the slog to get there?

I remember on my A&E rotation being on shift at 2am and being spat at and called a c**t because of the waiting time. I wished then I could swap to a ‘normal’ graduate job on 30k where you have dress down Friday and cocktails after work 😭 and before someone jumps in that’s what everyone I knew from uni who didn’t do medicine seemed to do.

Hadthesnip - comments like yours don't help the public perception of doctors . I know many many GPs . None are on the salaries you quote. 10/15 years ago at the peak of pay in general practice the highest earning practices might have been but it was not the norm in my area and partners salaries have fallen significantly since then. Unfortunately these figures were picked up and run with and no one wants to hear the reality as it gives less credence to the love to hate brigade.

I’m a consultant and it’s still shite. Not as easy as “just do some private work” or “change trusts”. If you can get out now and do something else do it. I will hopefully be leaving the profession soon - it’s jyst not worth it any more

I agree in many ways OP. No job is 100% perfect and I do love some aspects of my job, but there is an ever increasing amount of isdues that are slowly but surely beginning to tip that balance for many of us.

The blame culture that exists is one major issue, as is the ever increasing pressure from an aging population and the greater expectations the public are told they should have (but without the requisite physical or financial resources to match). The ever increasing amount of pointless paperwork and bureaucracy just adds to it.

The NHS is not a good employer, it often forgets we are people with lives and families too. I love my job, but I love my family more- however, I often feel that the expectation is that our family should come second to our jobs. I know many who feel the same.

Honestly, GP’s don’t have it better than hospital Dr’s at the moment (i’m not a GP but I do have good friends who are).

I will not be encouraging my DC to go into medicine.

It's hard work being a dr but I can assure you most graduates don't earn £40k, they are very much the exception. None of the young people I know who graduated this year has a place on any high paying scheme, most don't have jobs except the drs and nurses. Most people in this country work very hard and many have incredibly difficult jobs working shifts but are paid a fraction of what drs are paid.

BMA were utterly useless when my dh had serious mental health issues caused by his job , and had attempted suicide...he's so much happier now he's now long a medic , it's such a toxic career

The bottom line is not the pay but stress due to understaffing and my anxiety (I don’t think my personality is a good fit though academically I have been ok).

I’m leaving soon and know quite a few who are thinking about it too. Consultants look very stressed too as now more and more is expected of them (more n-ca

@Medicmog I’m also in a similar position - really don’t want to go back after mat leave. My best friend from medical school is also in the same boat and of the same opinion.

As doctors I feel the profession is so broken, and as a result, a lot of good people are leaving. I barely have time to do my job anymore, let alone evidence everything with the dreaded eportfolio. I genuinely don’t feel supported or valued in my role - as junior doctors, HR staff treat us appallingly ( in regards to rota planning/ leave etc), and we are often bullied/belittled by colleagues from day 1 of medical school. Before mat leave I just found myself so anxious and dreading going into work every day. I honestly don’t know if it is worth it anymore.

I am both disheartened and consoled by this thread. On one hand it’s so sad to hear of so many others in similar positions, but in other ways it’s nice to know we’re not alone.