Inheritance, brother wants to keep it quiet

[1strangerthings]

My parents are selling one of their properties. They want to retain 50% and split the rest between myself and my brother.

I am on a ftc with the possibility of it becoming permanent. I've said to the wife that I am planning to keep it to one side, but to reinvest it in a new upgraded property if I get a permanent contract.

My brother in the meantime wants to keep it secret from his wife. I have said it's not my business, so won't actually tell his wife, but I will certainly be speaking to my wife.

My parents on the other hand are frustrated. They want to be open about the fact that they are being generous to both families, rather than pretending to keep all the money. They (and us) are also slightly peeved that none of us are addressing this in open terms.

Why does your brother not want to declare the gift to his wife?

I think your parents are only giving you half the money so you have no choice but to be eternally grateful.

They want his wife to know so they can control the family and say "well we did this for you so you owe us" in a more discrete way...

Good Lord, nobody can breathe on Mumsnet without someone telling them they're causing offence. Language usage is fascinating, we see all the little historical quirks. Maybe when we've all been turned into robots we can communicate in approved code!

Anyway, I'm sure the news of the gift will not be secret for ever! It will be on the bank records scrutinised at probate or divorce.

anyone who thinks people are eternally grateful for money is deluded.

The parents may simply want it to be clear that they are treating both children equally.

"the wife" is not something to fuss over unless you know the wife and she resents it.

No-one pays tax on a gift unless the giver dies within 7 years. They do pay tax on the income and for that reason it can be sensible to keep spare cash in the names of both partners.

If the brother has children I would not be willing to keep quiet, apart from that it would depend on what I knew of his wife.

I had a similar situation- I didn’t tell my brothers wife and neither did my husband.

He chose not to tell her as she’s terrible with money, and tbf mg husband didn’t know the amount either.

I call DH 'the husband' and the DSs 'the child' or 'the children'.

I'm not Northern, and no-one in my family (who I sometines refer to as 'my lot' ' )are.

It's definitely a term of endearment for me, and I adore DH and the Dcs more than anything. (My family on the other hand...)

anyway- I'd want to know why the brother wants to keep it secret. If he is worried that his wife is profligate it is a problem. If he is planning on leaving her and hiding it then he is a disgrace (and it won't work anyway). If he is hiding it to cover something else like massive gambling debts then it is also a concern. So many concenrs about people who are not open and honest with their spouses about money....

Oh! I like the secret holiday plan theory!

I need to be more a cup half full person.... I am a more a' the cup has been stolen' person.

As a parent, if I was about to give a large gift of money to my kids, I'd want to know if one of them was about to split from their partner. And in that case I'd wait until the split was over. It's my money at this point, and its my child that I want to give it to. They would need it all the more after a split. And no, sorry, I wouldn't want half of my gift to go to disappear with the partner just weeks after giving it.

So yep, in this situation, I'd want to sit down with the son and all for a confidential chat about why he wants to keep this secret. He might be being an arse, or he might have a good reason.

"They want to be open about the fact that they are being generous to both families,"

What does that even mean?

As long as you & your sibling both know-it's no one else's business is it?

I also think your brother telling his wife or not is up to him, although I agree it's wrong to involve others in his deception.

Can't your parents just ask him why the secrecy?

Sounds like brothers marriage is on the rocks and he wants to keep his share to himself. Leave him too it If he doesn't want to tell, don't dicuss money in a group. What your parents do is their business.

He must be planning on leaving his wife at some point. Unless he needs the cash to pay off secret debts.

If they have children, perhaps he could have his 'share' put in trust for them instead?

Well, I used 'the wife' in paragraph 1, whilst using 'my wife' in paragraph 3.

I am referred to as 'the Husband'. I have to say, it has not crossed my mind to be offended about the use of words. We are a partnership (which I think is obvious from my original post), I find it an odd thing to get offended about.

Thank you for the replies. To be honest, his wife is one of the most competent people I know. I suspect that she has bailed him out a couple of times when his finances have been stretched. She's also not daft. She knows that they have sold this house and I suspect, knows that money is coming his way. Consequently, I suspect that she would expect some of the payment to be used to repay her. My brother has mumbled something about treating his family, but it largely comes across as an afterthought. I consider the use of money to be a joint decision (e.g. should we have a family holiday overseas, should we both get new cars, should we invest it)?

I also suspect bad wording on my part around the parents generosity. It is more that they don't want to come across as unselfish. They have a frugal lifestyle and want to do this now to avoid inheritance tax, but largely they want it to be useful, rather than in 20 years when all the children are grown up. You know what, they probably do expect a bit of gratitude? I don't think that's an unreasonable view either.

However, I am reasonably confident they don't expect his wife to be show undying gratitude. They just don't like being told to keep secrets and seeing one set of kids being open about their finances, whilst the other one is keeping quiet about it.

He wants to leave. That's why.

You sound v sensible as do the wives and parents.

Your brother on the other hand.... Well he's on his way out of his marriage and this is the ticket.

I think the resolution of this must be between your DB and your parents. There are potentially non-sinister explanations. DBs wife may be financially controlling & abusive for example.

Your parents should say they'll have no truck with underhand secrecy & double dealing. However if the reason behind the request is due to an imminent divorce then your parents could choose not to make the gift until later on in that process, after whatever cutoff point means that new assets would no longer be considered to be owned in common. They also may choose not to do that, if doing so would disadvantage their grandchildren for example.

OP's use of "the wife" as a phrase comes across as sexism to some ears because to many of us, "the" is used for "things" - the car; the house; the kettle; the toaster. When talking of people we are in an affectionate relationship of some kind we say "my sister", "my parents" etc. Using the word "the" puts ones wife into the former category.

Compare "I told the wife I'd be home at 6pm" with "I told the brother I'd be home at 6pm" - if ones wife is a real person rather than an owned chattel then the first should seem as odd as the second.

I don't think that the common use of "The hubby" is an adequate defence against this, as the diminutive "hubby" shows this is a phrase borne from a defensive reaction to being "othered" by the phrase "the wife" in the first place. "The husband" jars just as much.

Just tell him you won't be keeping it secret. When you're together as a family of course you'll be talking about it.

Either in laws are family or they are not.

On a recent htread on here one sister wanted to tell her brother the sex of her baby but did not want him to share that news with his wife because 'she only wanted family to know'. Responses were, rightly, outraged because their relationship and marriage had made his wife part of their family too. It was insulting and hurtful to be told "you just married into this family, you are not actually family".

IMO the same applies here. This lady is not just the brother's wife. She is a daughter-in-law and sister-in-law and so is a family member to all. In asking for this to be kept secret, the brohter is asking you to keep secrets from a member of your family.

Without good reason, and some honestly to explain it, this is not fair on any of you. He cannot and should not dictate what you get to tell another member of your family.

I can understand why the parents would not want it to be secret.
They probably don't want their daughter in law thinking that they favour one son over the other and have to deal with fallout and resentment.
Op and family cannot make brother be honest, but equally he can't make them lie. So I'd be having full and Frank talks about it in her earshot. Unless there's a backstory we don't know about ( gambling addiction for example).

I can think of many reasons why your brother might want to keep the money secret from his wife, some good and some bad. Not knowing the reason, it's hard to advise whether you should play along in keeping the secret.

Has anybody asked him? Would he be truthful if you did ask?

From your update it sounds as if your brother doesn;t want to pay his wife back money he brorrowed from her in the past. He has mentally made plans with what he wants to do with the money and paying back money he's borrowed is a bit boring - but then again maybe his wife had other plans for her money but bailed him out instead.
He sounds selfish.
And he can;t request that your parents or you and your wife keep it a secret. He's effectively asking you to lie - what if his wife asks one of you outright ? he can't expect you to cover for him because he's keeping all his share away from his wife. I'd just ignore him and say that no you won;t be keeping it a secret and talk about it quite openly - it's up to him to debate with his wife whether he keeps all the money to himself or pays her back.

FFS, get off the thread if you are so bothered about ‘the wife’. If you’ve got nothing useful to say then you need to jog on.

Goodness me, such a lot of discussion about a semi-lighthearted observation re OP’s use of “the wife”. To the poster who claimed it was gratuitous Northern-bashing, I am Northern myself so that’s definitely not it. @NameChange92, you pretty much nailed my feelings on the subject, thanks.
It’s very different from “my wife” or “our kid” because using the possessive denotes a sense of being part of the speaker’s family and having an emotional attachment whereas saying “THE wife” comes across as if the spouse is a bit of furniture etc or even an irritation, somebody that has been imposed upon the speaker - the type of context where it seems to come up is “Coming to the pub Dave?” “Oh I dunno, I’ll have to ask the wife [rolls eyes].”

Similar to the “ball and chain” expression.

That’s why it grates on me, context and tone can of course neutralise the disrespectful connotation. It was just my opinion anyway, not a statement of a rule!

When talking of people we are in an affectionate relationship of some kind we say "my sister", "my parents" etc. Using the word "the" puts ones wife into the former category.

I'm not sure that's universally true. I talk about 'the kids' and I feel reasonably affectionate towards them.

I second that sentiment Hotchocolate

Fair enough.