Why do so many people distrust socialism?

[malificent7]

Is it due to the legacy of Marx, the notion that it's a race to the bottom, the feeling that those who work harder should get paid more or a mistrust of human nature?
I do understand these concerns but what is more worrying if the vast inequality that seems to prevail nowadays. Thoughts please.

To me socialism also means government control. Lower taxes for all and abolish tax credits/ child benefit would be my ideal but so many people love the government controlling how and why they receive money.

You cannot legislate poor people out of poverty by legislating rich people into poverty.

I can't read beyond this in the post. This is fearmongering to the extreme. Socialism is absolutely not about this.

Well funnily enough I don't trust the CEOs, the hedge fund managers etc who have power now...

Neither do I - but I don’t trust the Corbynites either. I don’t trust any politicians!

I have a garden - I’ve read that Jeremy Corbyn wants to tax me for the privilege.

Any source for that?

jasjas1973

Well in my case it's because I think there are genuine socialists in the Labour Party and I don't want them running anything.

I'm all for a more equal distribution of wealth, but I don't think socialism is the way to achieve it. It seems to attract intolerant people who want to control what other people do and think. This has always been a problem in the Labour Party, but recently it's been getting worse.

I also think society is getting itself tied in knots over identity politics. Identity politics is a direct spin-off from socialism, because it takes Marxist economics and applies it to social issues and turns everything into an oppressor-versus-oppressed narrative. Laurie Taylor has a programme called Thinking Allowed on Radio 4. Some of his episodes deal with this (I think his own politics are somewhere left of centre).

Because we’re all horrible greedy bastards who want to drive our children to private school in carriages dragged by the poor and oppressed.
Next!

I also think society is getting itself tied in knots over identity politics.

It was the Tories who opened this Pandora's box with their ridiculous Brexit referendum. Not sure how you can blame that on Labour.

Sakura7

Eh?

Because pure socialism assumes humans want the best for society as a whole but in the real world people are greedy, selfish, lazy etc. In a perfect world we would work according to our skills and have the resources we need, AND be happy, but I like most people are flawed, I want more.

Democratic Socialism is quite a different beast to Soviet Socialism or China. When Corbyn and John McDonald talk about Socialism that’s what they’re talking about

Really? Then perhaps you could tell me why the second one was quite happy to demonstrate below a hammer and sickle (which he made sure to crop out of his preferred photos)?

metro.co.uk/2017/05/02/the-picture-that-john-mcdonnell-probably-doesnt-want-you-to-see-6609968/

And it's John McDonnell, by the way ...

I have a garden - I’ve read that Jeremy Corbyn wants to tax me for the privilege.

Any source for that?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/22/labour-says-land-value-tax-would-boost-local-government-budgets

Isn't that simply how councils used to be funded? Through rates based on property value?

If so, I don't see what the big deal is.

Anyway, I’m off - I have given my reasons in response to the OP’s question but no one has been able to respond to my argument about Diane Abbott sending her kids to private school while simultaneously condemning others who do so. OP - I think that’s the answer to your question right there. Night all!

Because The National Socialist German Workers' party didn’t work well?

Capitalism works better because it’s in tune with human nature. People will always do what they believe benefits them and their families. Whether it’s claiming benefits or private education.

The real problem is social injustice. Socialism doesn't stop that either. It’s still defers to who you know or how you can milk the system.

The prime minister should be someone state educated. Why should the best person for the job be privately educated? Why not do it by a school lucky dip...the new PM has to have attended whichever school is draw out of the bag. Sounds stupid but no more stupid then them all coming from Eton..

This is an interesting organisation for those interested in democracy that tries for equality of opportunity:

www.smf.co.uk

“A non-partisan think tank which believes that fair markets, complemented by open public services, increase prosperity and help people to live well.”

Greed and self interest, those at the top of the chain appear to be more equal than those beneath them and get more perks.

I can't believe so many people here would rather be like America than Scandinavia. Honestly, America is shit. Stop falling for shitty American business lies.

-Signed a former American

The free market economy has proven itself to be bad for average and low income earners. It has also had a huge negative impact on our environment.

I find it despicable that people who tend our sick, teach our children, dispose of our rubbish etc get paid a poor wage in comparison to those who shift our hard earned money around the place and charge us for the privilege.

Universal basic income should be considered as a means to protect the squeezed middle income earners and encourage people out to work.

We know. But we (and Denmark) are far more like the US than the USSR and we would like things to stay that way.

But capitalism is destroying our environment and the fabric of our societies. It has also failed to make us content.

Good grief. The nazis were not socialists NothinComes, as every professional historian agrees. They are far right. If you actually knew anything of the period you would know socialists were the first people in Germany to be sent to concentration camps and spent the 20s and 30s in street fights with nazis. The nazis then fought against the socialists in spain for pure ideology.

this guy sums it up

www.indy100.com/article/nazi-socialist-right-wing-white-supremacists-history-twitter-mikestuchbery-7900001

I always find it funny how apparently every socialist country ever "is not true socialism".

Here is a quote from Jeremy Corbyn:
"Chavez . . . showed us that there is a different, and a better way of doing things. It’s called socialism.”
Yet many of you are trying to say that Venezuela is NOT socialist, but communist. Make your minds up!

Others of you are trying to claim that Corbyn and McDonnell are in favour of a Nordic system. Funny how I've never heard either of them mention it.

Seriously where are people earning their history from? These apparent lecturers sound useless.

There hasnt been one good argument against the OPs question. In fact I dont think I've seen anybody who claims to oppose socialism who actually knows what they're on about.

And the 'because people are greedy' cliche. Thats more for capitalism.

Nobody gives a shit about Dianne pissing abbots arrangements for her kids education.

Its no wonder this country is going this way. People think it will all carry on like this whilst they imagine they work harder than everybody else, they deserve the house they paid a pittance for years ago and 20 yeas olds deserve to rent or live at home for life. But neoliberalism is dead.

There is a statement of the Nazi Party's political agenda here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program#The_25-point_Program_of_the_NSDAP.

Nothing explicit about the means of production, supply and exchange being under workers' control. The closest is this:

7. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.

So, in other words, only as much state control as is necessary to ensure full employment for ethnic Germans (and explusion of the rest).

Oh, and socialism generally had a lot to say about the universal brotherhood of humanity. The Nazis certainly had a lot to say about that, but none of it was socialist.

(as a rather grim aside, when the Japanese defeated the British at Singapore the Germans refused to send the Japanese congratulations, because the result contradicted Nazi race theory, which would have held that the British should have beaten them).

Venezuela used to work really well at one point under Chavez. I remember a hilarious documentay about it years ago claiming he was corrupt because he was 'getting votes by giving people what they want' But if you think a developing country being covertly attacked by the US who is an oligarchy relying purely on oil barons is a god example of socialism, just dont bother.