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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to say that big is NOT beautiful!

882 replies

SummerSummerSummer · 24/07/2019 19:30

So, I'm not expecting the MN community to take this statement well (or who knows), but I have come to the conclusion that the whole 'Big is Beautiful' stuff is complete nonsense! Big (I'm talking overweight here) is unhealthy, unattractive, and normal healthy weight is what we should all aim for.

Pre-DC, ten years ago, I was of normal weight, attractive and full of energy. I would cycle to work (in London), go running, rollerblading and do yoga classes. Whatever clothes I wanted to wear, I did with no problems. Everything looked great.

Children happened and the sleep deprivation, lack of me-time and the general exhaustion made me seek comfort in food and I gained a lot of weight. I would eat chocolate secretly behind my family's back to reward myself for something or to celebrate a moment or whatever reason really.

A few days ago I saw pictures taken of me on a family holiday and I can't fake it anymore. I look awful! My belly looks like I'm 6 months pregnant, my thighs are full of cellulite and my bum is enormous (however fashionable it might be at the moment). And I don't look good either. I hate getting into a swimming costume for everyone to see me, I cannot find any nice clothes to fit me and I'm so unfit!

It's easier to tell yourself in the winter that you're not really that big when you can wrap yourself in big jumpers, coats and scarves. You can do your hair and make up and kind of look ok. But in this heat there's no hiding from it, and no amount of make up or time spent on hair can fake you a healthy looking figure. And I hate the way I have to pull my t-shirts down over my belly instead of tucking them in like it's fashionable at the moment! And any leggings, tights or bottoms with elasticated waist always roll under my belly rather than stay up where they're supposed to be! Let alone the fact that this is now my preferred wardrobe due to jeans and smarter trousers feeling really uncomfortable! And tops! Spagetti top is a no, sleeveless top is a no, t-shirt is a maybe if it's the loose kind because of big wobbly arms!

So the reasons I'm saying big is not beautiful are:

  1. Being overweight is unhealthy and puts you in risk of all kinds of illnesses (such as diabetes which I worry about)
  2. You are constantly fixated on food and treats. What you are going to eat next, when can you eat it, how can you hide it from everyone else etc..
3.Nothing fits you nicely. You can not participate in the fashion scene.
  1. You get out of breath so easily. Even going upstairs becomes a nuisance let alone having a game of football or tag with your children!
  2. Telling lies to yourself is not healthy for you mentally. Healthy body, healthy mind.
  3. Not wanting to appear in photographs. Editing yourself out of family photos which is super sad.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Vulpine · 25/07/2019 13:03

I thought anything over a waist size of 33 inches for women was not good for your health

Butters83 · 25/07/2019 13:10

JemimaPuddlePeacock yes i saw the backlash. I was horrified by the campaign and signed a petition against it. Do you know who backed that campaign? Slimming world.

Cancer research even admitted last year that there was insufficient evidence to say it causes cancer.

There is a difference between causation and correlation.

floribunda18 · 25/07/2019 13:19

I'm 13 stone, 5'7" and a muscular and curvy size 14. I look like Britannia, or Athena or other chunky classical type statues. I would like to weigh about ten and a half stone, but the lightest I've been in the last ten years is 12 and a half stone.

I don't know about beautiful by today's fashion and health standards, but I was clearly born in the wrong time as at one time I'd have been worshipped as a goddess.

buttertoasty · 25/07/2019 13:24

@Butters83 so you were horrified by that campaign but not by the anti-smoking one?

floribunda18 · 25/07/2019 13:25

I'm also not unhealthy (which actually doesn't motivate me to eat less as I feel just fine). I walk miles with the dog, can run a few miles comfortably, do yoga - am very bendy and strong, have low blood pressure, perfect cholesterol and low resting heart rate. I eat a very healthy diet, just struggle to eat less food to lose weight when I get so hungry from being active.

BloodyDisgrace · 25/07/2019 13:33

There's no way I'll read the full thread or see who insulted whom.

I agree with you, OP, I personally wouldn't call overweight "beautiful" but neither I would call it "gross" or "disgusting", these are not the words to describe a person who didn't do you anything wrong. Basically, I'd leave the aesthetic judgement out.

I'd say overweight is unhealthy. But even that is a tricky thing as there are a lot of people who'll use anything to be smug and self-righteous bastards, who'll make your health their concern only to put you down. But you should be able to have an opinion and others to deal with this fact, without everyone starting to scream and topple over like complete snowflakes.

Butters83 · 25/07/2019 13:42

buttertoasty yes because not only is smoking a choice where as fatness isnt necessarily isnt, there is a clear cut defined fact on the ink between smoking and cancer. there is NOT for obesity.

floribunda18 · 25/07/2019 13:44

Now stand an obese female next to an obese male. They are the exact opposite of the fit couple. Fat makes you angrogynous. It hides curves in female bodies and hides angles in male bodies. Obese men and women look very similar to each other, their secondary sexual characteristics disappear. Their faces lose definition and unique features, often morphing into a generic fat face. There's nothing beautiful about that.

Only if people are seriously, morbidly obese. DH's weight hasn't changed much since he was younger, he has always been chubby with a round belly, but with very shapely and muscular legs. Definitely male! I've become more discernibly female over the years, more obvious breasts, bottom and curves whereas I used to look quite androgynous when I was very slim- not that there is anything wrong with that, I should add.

floribunda18 · 25/07/2019 13:47

In fact when I was about 21, had short pixie hair and went running one time and shot past the postman into the back door of the house he said to my mum "Oh I saw your son coming back from a run..." She was very puzzled.

thedayofthethreeMagnums · 25/07/2019 13:49

not only is smoking a choice where as fatness isnt necessarily

if you consider that both are addiction, then they are more than similar. If you consider they are a simple choice, then what's the excuse!

The link being obesity and disease, cancers, medical conditions has been so wildly researched you can google for further details, you'll find plenty.

CollaterlyS1sters · 25/07/2019 13:54

@Butters83

Cancer research even admitted last year that there was insufficient evidence to say it causes cancer.

there is a clear cut defined fact on the ink between smoking and cancer. there is NOT for obesity.

Wtf? This is total bullshit.

What on earth makes you think you can get away with such bald faced lies?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27909899/

there is convincing evidence today that obesity also increases the risk of several types of cancer, including colorectal cancer, postmenopausal breast cancer, endometrial cancer, renal cell carcinoma, esophageal adenocarcinoma, pancreatic cancer, and liver cancer. Obesity probably also increases the risk of ovarian cancer, advanced prostate cancer, gallbladder cancer, and gastric cardia cancer.

www.wcrf.org/dietandcancer/exposures/body-fatness

There is strong evidence that:

being overweight or obese throughout adulthood INCREASES the risk of

mouth, pharynx and larynx cancers
oesophageal cancer (adenocarcinoma)
stomach cancer (cardia)
pancreatic cancer
gallbladder cancer
liver cancer
colorectal cancer
breast cancer (postmenopause)
ovarian cancer
endometrial cancer
prostate cancer (advanced)
kidney cancer
greater weight gain in adulthood INCREASES the risk of

postmenopausal breast cancer
being overweight or obese as an adult before menopause DECREASES the risk of

premenopausal breast cancer
being overweight or obese between the ages of about 18 and 30 years DECREASES the risk of

pre- and postmenopausal breast cancer

Butters83 · 25/07/2019 14:03

wow you are HOSTILE.

Here is my rebuttal.

Dear Michelle Mitchell,
We are writing to ask that you stop the current advertising campaign run by Cancer Research UK.
We are a group of academics, healthcare professionals, and experienced advocates who are committed to reducing weight-related stigma and discrimination (i.e. negative attitudes, stereotypes and behaviours experienced by people at a higher weight). For decades, advocates, researchers and clinicians have highlighted the importance of addressing the harmful effects of weight stigma and discrimination; your current campaign completely undermines this work. The campaign, which draws a comparison between smoking, weight and cancer risk, is not only inaccurate, it is harmful to people who are at a higher weight, including those with cancer.
* Please click here to sign our petition and call a halt to this campaign*
We want to be clear that, like you, we’re committed to challenging social and environmental influences on health. However, we believe this can be done without fuelling weight stigma and discrimination.
Your campaign’s focus on weight as a leading cause of cancer is misleading. Body mass index (BMI) is a crude indicator of health and while there is an association between higher BMI and cancer, the reasons and mechanisms for this are unclear.
Given that the dominant public perception is that weight gain is caused by a lack of willpower and that weight can be reduced easily and rapidly, when you frame people’s weight as the problem, instead of directly addressing the environmental factors you intend to change through policy, you are effectively telling people that cancer is their fault. Through making a direct comparison between smoking and weight, your campaign contributes to these assumptions, suggesting that it is a lifestyle choice. This belies the reality. As highlighted in the UK Government’s Foresight Report, weight is influenced by over 100 complex and interacting factors including genetics, the built environment and a vast array of psychological and social factors. Your approach is also counterproductive — research shows that compared with weight-neutral campaigns, weight-focused campaigns are ineffective at promoting health behaviour change.
While we support action on the food environment, as per the CRUK campaign aims, we believe that a different approach to smoking is needed. One key difference is that smoking could largely be controlled through policy change. Even with changes to the food environment, there will be diversity of body weight and size, in the same way that there is a spectrum of height and shoe size. Your rationale for the use of the smoking comparison is that the government has regulated tobacco and could do the same with “junk food”. However, by linking this to weight, you fuel the assumption that individuals simply gain weight by eating the ‘wrong’ foods, and that thinner people are healthy and less susceptible to ‘junk food’ marketing.
Implying that individuals are largely in control of and responsible for their body size (and therefore cancer) supports a culture of blame and plays into prejudices and negative stereotypes which drive the social exclusion, marginalisation, and inequality of an already stigmatised population. Weight stigma has increased at an alarming rate in recent decades. Among higher weight patients, 64% of men, and 67% of women report being stigmatised by their healthcare provider because of their weight. This is particularly concerning in relation to cancer; women report weight stigma as a reason for delaying or avoiding cervical, breast, and colorectal cancer screenings, citing disrespectful treatment, embarrassment at being weighed, negative attitudes of providers, and unsolicited advice to lose weight as the main barriers. In addition, weight stigma has been identified as a barrier to accessing treatment in women with endometrial cancer.
The evidence is clear that weight stigma actively discourages people from engaging in behaviours that are known to promote health and reduce cancer risk, regardless of BMI, such as physical activity and eating nutritious foods. Rather, weight stigma has been highlighted by the World Health Organisation as playing a significant role in poor body image, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, and avoidance of medical care. Thus, contrary to the popular misconception, weight stigma is not an effective way of promoting health — quite the opposite .
Additionally, despite poverty and social inequalities having a dramatic effect on health and incidence of cancer, there is no mention of this in your campaign. This is particularly concerning given that your aim is to change policy. It’s been estimated that there is a 19 year difference in healthy life expectancy between people living in the most and least deprived areas of England. A person living in one of the most deprived areas is twice as likely to die from cancer compared to someone living in one of the least deprived areas. But instead of focusing on these important social determinants of health, your campaign focuses purely on weight.
We understand that influencing policy change related to the fundamental causes of health inequalities is not an easy task — successive governments have been informed about the complex determinants of body weight and yet the emphasis remains on pushing an individualistic, lifestyle-oriented narrative, most likely because this fits with the policies of austerity.
You have justified your current and previous campaigns — in spite of criticism from researchers, health professionals and the public — by stating that it was tested through surveys and focus groups. Weight bias internalisation, where people turn negative stereotypes inwards and engage in self-blame, is common across the weight spectrum. People may have agreed with your campaign because they truly believe the widespread notion that a high BMI is simply the outcome of people failing to take responsibility for their weight. Your campaign serves to reinforce this misplaced belief. Reducing weight stigma is not simply a case of being ‘sensitive’ about people’s weight — it means removing the structural and systemic prejudices such as this campaign. A more accurate and inclusive campaign likely to be more productive would emphasise respectful care for all bodies, empowering people to make health promoting changes, no matter what their BMI.
Lastly, we need to highlight the clear conflict of interest in your partnership with Slimming World. The Slimming World brand is ultimately committed to commercial gain, not improving public health. This partnership cannot be justified on scientific grounds as evidence demonstrates that these programmes are not effective ways of achieving and maintaining weight loss or preventing cancer. Therefore, as an evidence-based organisation your association with Slimming World misleads your patrons and the public more broadly.
We hope CRUK can take this opportunity to live up to their own values of equality, diversity and inclusion. This would involve:
Most importantly, changing the focus of this campaign and publicly explaining why.
Prioritising well-being over weight: delivering public health messages which are weight-inclusive and focus on empowering positive health promoting changes for every body.
Ceasing to mislead the public by stating ‘obesity’ is a ‘cause’ of cancer and instead more accurately communicating risk, acknowledging that improvements to health, and reductions in cancer risk, can be made without changes to body weight.
Making a commitment to end weight stigma (and other forms of discrimination) within the charity and among stakeholders.
Lobbying government and applying pressure for action on the social and environmental determinants of health.
To this end, we have started a Change.org petition and have invited members of the public to share their experiences of how your new campaign has affected them.
We look forward to receiving your reply and, more importantly, seeing action taken to reduce the impact of this campaign.
Signed:
Helen West, RD, BSc PG Dip
Freelance Registered Dietitian, The Rooted Project
Laura Thomas, PhD, RNutr
Director, London Centre for Intuitive Eating
Sarah Dempster, RNutr
Registered Nutritionist
Rosie Saunt, RD, BSc
Freelance Registered Dietitian, The Rooted Project
Yoni Freedhoff, MD
Associate Professor, Department of Family Medicine, University of Ottawa.
Dr James Brown
Senior Lecturer and Director of Aston Research Centre for Healthy Ageing
Judy Swift, C Psychol, RNutr
Chartered Psychologist, Registered Nutritionist, former University of Nottingham
Oli Williams, PhD
Research Fellow, King’s College London
Stuart W. Flint, PhD
Senior Research Fellow, Leeds Beckett University
Giles Yeo
Principal Research Associate, University of Cambridge
Stacy Bias
Fat Activist and Campaigner
Fiona Quigley
PhD Researcher, Ulster University
Katherine Barrett, PhD
Researcher
Marita Hennessy
SPHeRE PhD Scholar, National University of Galway
James Nobles, PhD
Senior Research Associate, Bristol University
Sarah Le Brocq
Director, Obesity UK
Angela Meadows, PhD
ESRC Postdoctoral Research Fellow, University of Exeter
Deb Burgard, PhD, FAED
Psychologist and Activist, San Francisco Bay Area USA
Lesley Gray FFPH, MPH, MSc
Obesity Researcher, University of Otago, New Zealand
Maureen Busby, MSc MBPsS©
Researcher, PCOS Advocate
Zoe- Trinder-Widdess
Communications Manager, National Institute for Health Research Collaborations for Leadership in Applied Health Research and Care West
Professor Sarah Redsell
Professor of Public Health, Anglia Ruskin University
Melanie Voevodin
Dietitian, Policy Analyst
Anthony Warner
The Angry Chef
Esther Rothblum, PhD
Professor of Women’s Studies San Diego State University
Eva Pila, PhD
Assistant Professor, Western University
Wendy R. Dragon, PhD
Associate Professor, Wright State University
Professor Abigail C. Saguy
UCLA Sociology
Helena Lewis-Smith, PhD
Senior Research Fellow, Centre for Appearance Research, University of the West of England, Bristol
Nadia Craddock, EdM
PhD Researcher, Centre for Appearance Research, University of the West of England, Bristol
Fiona Sutherland, APD
Body Positive Australia Executive Comittee, Australia & New Zealand Academy of Eating Disorders
Rebecca Scritchfield, RDN, EP-C
Intuitive eating dietitian, exercise physiologist,
Nicholas Sharratt
Research Fellow, Centre for Appearance Research, University of the West of England, Bristol
Dr Claire Hamlet
Research Fellow, Centre for Appearance Research, University of the West of England, Bristol
Dimitri Pournaras PhD, FRCS
North Bristol NHS Trust
Fabio Zucchelli
Research Associate, Centre for Appearance Research, University of the West of England, Bristol
Jessica Rann, RD
Registered Dietitian, London Centre for Intuitive Eating
Marion Hetherington
Professor of Biopsychology, University of Leeds
Theodore K. Kyle, RPh, MBA
Founder, ConscienHealth
Pixie Turner, MSc, ANutr
Associate registered Nutritionist
Caitlin O’Reilly
Health Care Professional
Nancy Ellis-Ordway, PhD, LCSW
Mental Health Professional, Eating Disorder Therapist
Iréné Celcer MA, LCSW
Amy MacDonald, MScFN, RD
Public Health Advocate, Ontario, Canada
Peggy Elam, PhD
Clinical Psychologist
Kati Fosselius, MS, RDN
Director, Dietetic Internship, California Polytechnic State University
Stephanie von Liebenstein, MA
Founder and vice president of the Association against Weight Discrimination
Linda Bacon, PhD
Physiologist/Researcher
Marcella M Raimondo, PhD, MPH
Psychologist, Consultant and Trainer
Lucy Aphramor
Radical Dietitian
Christy Harrison, MPH, RD, CDN
Founder and CEO, Food Psych Programs, Inc.
Jaclyn Packer, Ph.D.
Social Psychologist
Judith M Larson, PhD
Licensed clinical psychologist, private practice
Meg McClintock B Nutrition& Dietetics (Hons)
Accredited Practising Dietitian
Susan Williams
Accredited Practising Dietitian
Paul Ernsberger, Ph.D.
Dept. of Nutrition, Case Western Reserve Univ
Krista Handfield, MSW, LCSW
Founder of Shape Center Ri.
Dr Peter WG Tennant
University Academic Fellow in Health Data Science, University of Leeds
Jeffrey Hunger, PhD
Assistant Professor, Department of Psychology, Miami University
Kerry Beake, BSc, Post Grad Dip
Health Professional, Fat Activist and Social Justice Advocate
Lily O’Hara, PhD, MPH
Associate Professor of Public Health, Qatar University
Louise Adams, MSc
Vice President HAES Australia
Joanne Rathbone
PhD Researcher, School of Psychology, University of Queensland

Butters83 · 25/07/2019 14:06

Here is another link from BY CANCER RESEARCH themselves

T( www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2014/sep/fat-shaming-doesnt-encourage-weight-loss) which shines a rather questionable light on Cancer Research UK’s partnership with multimillion pound company Slimming World, but that’s another story altogether.

Butters83 · 25/07/2019 14:08

so you can carry on with misinformed personal judgement about weight, fatness and health without doing any research outside of your normal reading material that fits your own personal narrative. It still doesn't change the fact that someones health is NONE of your business.

Klobluchar · 25/07/2019 14:14

Did someone (a fat person) complain about the treatment they received from your partner or something? You do seem a bit invested in this.

thedayofthethreeMagnums · 25/07/2019 14:15

Instead of focusing on the harmful effect of excess weight stigma, maybe more time should be spent focusing on the harmful effects of excess weight full stop?

just a thought...

Klobluchar · 25/07/2019 14:17

P.S. being a fan of a subreddit group whose sole purpose is to trash the Body Positive movement (coz it’s been so succesful, huh Hmm) probably means you hate fat people, which is fine. Just admit that and we’ll all get to our destination quicker.

Butters83 · 25/07/2019 14:20

well its nice that those of you who hate fat people out yourselves and just be done with it so I know who to avoid!

Bored now. What a toxic environment this thread is. No wonder people slag off mumsnet!

thedayofthethreeMagnums · 25/07/2019 14:22

the subreddit group has some really valid and interesting points actually. Things that should be obvious, but clearly are not.

The body positive mouvement as it stands should be trashed, it should only ever have existed to encourage everyone to love their healthy and fit body - not that anything goes.

Tha'ts not even what the subreddit group is about.

thedayofthethreeMagnums · 25/07/2019 14:23

those of you who hate fat people

what a sad projection. Do you hate smokers? Do you hate alcoholics?

CollaterlyS1sters · 25/07/2019 14:37

@Butters83

You have posted a letter from such luminaries as

Registered Dietitian, London Centre for Intuitive Eating

Professor of Biopsychology, University of Leeds

Kerry Beake, BSc, Post Grad Dip
Health Professional, Fat Activist and Social Justice Advocate

To argue against a huge systematic review of actual scientific research published in a journal of cancer research by two molecular epidemiologists.

And an article by the World Cancer Research Fund International, a leading authority on cancer prevention research related to diet, nutrition and physical activity.

It's quite frightening that you think that is a 'rebuttal'.

What an indictment of the state of scientific understanding.

WhoKnewBeefStew · 25/07/2019 14:47

I'm with you OP. I'm now 3 stone overweight due to the exact reasons you put in your opening post and have all the same thoughts and feelings.

I'm going on holiday for two weeks with the dc and dh and I'm trying so hard to tell myself not to give a shit what I look like in a bikini, and my dh says I look sexy in mine (bless him), and my mantra is 'I'm going to own this bikini). But in reality I feel fucking awful and I know it's all m town fault

Crustytoenail · 25/07/2019 14:52

I'd say overweight is unhealthy. But even that is a tricky thing as there are a lot of people who'll use anything to be smug and self-righteous bastards, who'll make your health their concern only to put you down.
There's an awful lot of this goes on on threads about being overweight. And it's likely the reason.....

But you should be able to have an opinion and others to deal with this fact, without everyone starting to scream and topple over like complete snowflakes.

.......This is an issue. It's fairly easy to work out who's using the health angle to just be a judgemental twat really.
Don't like it? Don't look! But don't try and gain the moral high ground by pretending you care about someone's health or social health or the NHS. It's bollocks and we all know it's bollocks.

Being overweight is unhealthy, as an overweight person I do actually know that, as do most overweight people, however I have other priorities and things going on that no one knows, or needs to know but me and anyone I choose to tell or seek help from. I am not as healthy as I could be, but that doesn't in any way shape or form affect my moral fibre, my personality or my work ethic and that's what's being judged in most cases, not what you put in your mouth.

Reluctantbettlynch · 25/07/2019 15:06

Not read the read, I've experienced many on here in a similar vein. However, I wanted to share my experience with you, for anyone it may be relevant to.
I have been overweight my entire adult life, particularly since my second child. I don't have any opinion on big being beautiful, but I do find that when I feel happy & confident and generally better about myself I am more likely to get some weight off. When I feel sad or miserable it either stays on or goes up. So I don't think make fat people feel shit helps. Positivity and support instead of judgement and let people be.
I have deep seated issues from childhood affecting me that others aren't aware of. I can't eat salad / vegetables - it makes me physically sick due to childhood. Being restricted in healthy options makes it very difficult. I would like to lose weight, but if someone wants to judge me for it then it's their problem rather than mine.

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