I've just had a row with DH for rough handling DS, 18 months.

[Privacysettingss]

Regular MN but I've name changed for the purpose of the thread.

I've just had a row with DH for rough handling DS, 18 months. He was changing his bum on the changing mat and DS was twisting and squirming as they do, DH sort of lifted his legs to turn his body back straight and 'dragged' him back down in an inpatient way hissing "don't make it difficult!"

I'm probably not describing it well as I'm running on adrenaline at the moment and rush typing, but the point is he was rough and inpatient.

I was livid and immediately addressed it saying "don't you ever do that to him, ever"

DH immediately became defensive and began acting petulant "fine I just wont touch him at all then"

I replied that he shouldn't be man handling a toddler and I'm furious because this is the second time I've addressed his impatience and rough handling of DS and told him if I ever witnessed anything of the sort again he would be out.

Cue more defensive tantrum like stomping about, then he accused me of calling him a "child abuser" which I didn't but if the shoe fits..

He's now in a foul mood because he feels as though he has been attacked (verbally by me) for addressing it. He eventually admitted he could have been alot gentler, but still hasn't dropped his defensive woe is me routine. He's bringing up earlier unrelated arguments where I've said he's behaved badly, and saying I'm labelling him thick and all sorts.

Again the words never left my mouth.

This is fucking bad isn't it, tell me I'm not overreacting.

With hindsight, I realise that I suffered from PTSD with my babies which led to hyper vigilance as to safety etc of kids and severe anxiety. I overreacted a lot especially vis a vis my husband. I don’t know if this may be a factor in your case. I simply mention that this is a possibility.

Don’t blame yourself though, even if it were to turn out to be that.

As pp said, we didn’t see it and don’t know your husband and the situation generally so cannot judge if excessive force has been used. Very difficult. But you are right to reflect on it.

Don’t grovel to him though now.

Toddlers are frustrating and wiggle and make things hard. Some people have endless patience and some people don't, I think I yanked my DS back to the centre of the changing mat a few times when he wasn't co operating. But I would be devastated if my DH implied I was abusing my son.

I think you are probably more patient and overreacted. Cut him some slack parenting is hard and nappy changing is tricky with a wiggly 18 month old.

Fair play to you for coming back and admitting you were wrong.
Glad you have calmed down and apologised to him.

Agree with nevergotmypuppy, too.

Am I missing something? Did DS cry out in pain?

If you tell him if he does it again, he's out, and he gets 50/50 he'll be changing DS however roughly he feels necessary half the time and then what?

FWIW, and I know the ship has sailed, I don't think you were wrong to have the reaction you did. The first incident as described was most concerning and protective instincts are there for a reason.

You need to assess how you feel - even now, do you trust DH with the toddler?
Is there anything he can do (not just say) to reassure you and help you to build trust again?
Does he understand that the toddler is not having a go at him personally or deliberately making things difficult, that there is nothing personal in the toddler's behaviour, and that he should not take anything personally?

Does he understand that toddlers are doing absolutely the best they can in any given moment?

I think you need to sit your DH down and ask him if he has a plan for dealing with the frustration that comes with dealing with toddlers.

Does he need to go back for a MH checkup?

Can the two of you sit down and discuss the role of fear in your relationships with the toddler?

Sometimes it's helpful to keep a diary where each day's interactions with a toddler can be graded on a 1-5 scale, with a comment under the grade about factors that affected the grade (i.e. 'I wanted to watch the cricket when DS spilled his snack all over the couch so I shouted at him'). You can also assign a grade to the sort of day you think the toddler had, and think about factors that contributed to that.

It can help if someone is genuinely interested in creating positive family dynamics because you can identify your own part in escalating situations. A diary of this sort can also help you gain the perspective that a relationship with a toddler is conducted on a day to day basis. It also sets you at a little remove from the situation, gives you back a sense of control, and can destress you after a rough day.

I wish my own mother had done the same. YANBU.

Lets hope your DS never has an accident on your watch OP.

I see you’ve recognised you’re overreacting. It’s worth noting specifically your ‘I removed myself from the situation’ approach to stressful parenting moments does NOT apply here. You can’t walk away from a baby on a change table. You often can’t plop a half changed baby on the floor to walk away either, or you can but my baby’s room and contents would be hand painted in various tones of poo. Mine is 13mo and I sometimes take ages nappy changing as the challenge is holding them down... I don’t see any other way to do it! (Yes I do distract with toys)

I agree with @Mummoomoocow ‘s very first post and also @Privacysettingss can you try pull ups from now on, and he can be cleaned and then standing when you put on a clean nappy? My DS hasn’t kept still ever, he’s 6 now... you should see him at 10pm 🙈

I think the way you reacted tonight is totally acceptable and instinctive. You’re a great mom. Allow your DH to understand a few things he may be yet to realise... talk in a way that’s not accusational about how you’ll ‘both’ handle things with DS when you're feeling tired and impatient. My HV game me loads of advice, like, leaving baby in safe place and walking away to cool off if you feel at the end of your tether, mostly I find, dad’s aren’t given ANY advice.

Every parent in every land has done this at some point. You're being ridiculous.

He pulled him back to change his arse, he didn't bodyslam the kid FFS.

Whatever t he situation with your dp, pull up nappies are much better for a wriggly 18mth old, much less frustrating - unless you can find your sons distraction trigger - ours was Ben and Holly, was amazing he would lie still and just state at twee screen, I even downloaded some episodes to my phone for when we were out and about.

I think you are over reacting, I do this to 3 month DD a lot, so does DH

Plenty of times I had to manhandle mine when they were wriggling toddlers needing a nappy change. I'd have been there all day otherwise.

I used to hold them down to get it done as quickly as possible, otherwise they would have escaped and smeared shitty arses everywhere.

It is extremely hard from brief descriptions on an internet forum to say for sure what actually happened and who was being unreasonable. However, I do lean towards thinking that you are overreacting. It is almost impossible to guarantee never to manhandle a wriggly, feisty toddler who is determined not to cooperate.

I think most parents have done this to be honest. A wriggly baby can be hard work whilst nappy changing. My niece used to be a nightmare. She would constantly try to crawl away when her nappy was being changed, and it took both me and my mum to pin her down and get her clean (she is really strong!)

Shame on the people here saying you're over reacting. Just what are you supposed to wait for to not be over reacting? A broken leg? Back? what?? Once is an accident but he keeps doing it so he's deliberately ill treating the baby. Its absolutely your responsibility to call it out and you don't need these idiots permission.

Don't wait for baby to get seriously hurt and DSS to come in and justifiably throw the blame around... Whatever your DH is angry about (and his crappy attitude when you talk to him about it) I don't really care... Babies and kids is where I draw the line with shitty man tantrums. I think you know that too.

I agree that the earlier incident was not on but the nappy change is just normal life. When you have been trying to strap a non compliant toddler in to a nappy as the wriggle. squirm and roll away sometimes you do need to manhandle them in there.

Also agree with the teeth brushing, I sometimes had to sit DS2 in my lap on the floor, pin him in with one of my legs and hold his head to get his teeth brushed. Thankfully he is getting better!

I’ve done it. When my child has been covered in poo from the top of her nappy to her thighs and she’s decided to roll, yes, I have grabbed her and rolled her back and told her off.

But what are you meant to do?

You can do it without thinking at the back of your mind that the toddler is deliberately trying to make it difficult for you. This man hissed, 'Don't make it difficult'. He hissed.

Ascribing malice to the toddler is the part that is troubling here.

You can deal with a wriggling toddler without assuming the toddler is having a go at you, without taking it personally.

I honestly think this man has a problem.

mathanxiety

Oh come on. “He hissed.” He didn’t beat the kid. He was annoyed. These things happen.

And my toddler is trying to make it difficult. 😂 Not maliciously, just because she thinks it’s funny to see me squirm.

There is an explosive quality to the impatience behind the hissing and the impatience behind the lifting up and plonking down of the first incident, along with the element of physically overwhelming the baby/toddler that is very troubling.

It's all very well to say 'Haven't we all manhandled our toddlers..'
But we seem to be ignoring the temper that came with both of these incidents.

Maybe many of us haven't seen that sort of unexpected rage as a reaction to a normal situation involving a baby or toddler, but believe me if you ever had you would never feel relaxed again if you left you ever left the baby or toddler in the care of the angry man, and you would not be comparing your manhandling of your own toddlers to the sudden display of anger + force that the OP described.

Ascribing malice and responding with anger and force is a completely different kettle of fish from understanding that the toddler thinks it's funny. Taking a toddler's normal behaviour as a personal challenge and responding with anger and force is problematic.

There is an explosive quality to the impatience behind the hissing and the impatience behind the lifting up and plonking down of the first incident, along with the element of physically overwhelming the baby/toddler that is very troubling.

It doesn’t trouble me that people sometimes succumb to feeling frustrated with toddlers. They’re frustrating. I’ve done the same myself and my child is safe and happy.

You are feeding the OP’s anxiety.

Ok assuming it isn't worse than you've described you may be BU.

At 18m my toddler was a nightmare to change - every change involves pinning him down and manhandling him. The alternative was leaving him filthy or me getting kicked in the face! The only solution for me was to get him potty trained asap so I can sympathise with your DH a bit.