To disagree that only white people can be English

[Neome]

This idea popped up on a thread about something else entirely. I have white and asian heritage. It sounds like, in this person's view, I cannot describe myself as English only as British.

Aibu to say that being born in England I can reasonably describe myself as English and heritage and skin colour do not bar anyone from describing themselves as English?

Vaguely related/unrelated but I get irked when people say "English" to mean everything in the British Isles, from Orkney to Guernsey passing through Belfast, Glasgow & Cardiff.

I live in the South of England and people do it a lot here.

I’m 4th generation immigrant. Grandparents and parents are British citizens but we’re not white. When a stranger asks me where I’m —really— from I say something like ‘I was raised in the UK but my ancestors are from (country)’

I don’t feel comfortable saying I’m British anymore, unless it’s for filling out forms as I don’t think many people accept me to be British, and I don’t want people to think I’m deluded. I admire the many posters in this thread who accept people of any racial background who were raised in the UK to be British, however (in my experience) MN is more accepting than real life.

I’ve visited my ‘native’ country once so barely identify with their culture either, so in general I don’t have a strong identity

Also confused by people drawing parallels with calling white people African. Africa is a continent, not a country - your nationality can't be African.
True but you might call yourself African in the same way you might call yourself European.
The white people I referred to up post would consider themselves ‘South African and African’ and ‘Zimbabwean and African’.
They wouldn’t say their nationality was African obviously.
There’s lots of ways to identify yourself. Nationality, ethnicity, culture, continent, religion.

I have 100% German/Austrian etc heritage, first family came to England around 70 years ago.

I am DEFINITELY English. As are you. You just happen to have heritage that comes with a different skin colour.

True but you might call yourself African in the same way you might call yourself European

Yes, so then the argument "if being born in England makes you English white people born in Africa are African" should be "if being born in Europe makes you European. . ."

I am of Anglo Indian and British descent. I've lived all my life in England, my skin is white but my brother's is not.
Culturally my background is very much Anglo Indian. I say I'm English, of mixed heritage.
Historically, Anglo Indians were rejected by the British and the Indians so race has always been a tricky issue.

@Mamamia456 Very stressed mum - It is confusing, but I would say you were British, as although you weren't born here you have lived here most of your life. I would also say that people who were born in England are English.

I say I'm English

I know exactly what you mean op.
I am mixed heritage and I've only ever been described as British Arab or British Asian ( I'm neither of these things) whereas my friend who's parents are from Hungary is described as English.
I would describe myself as British but only because if I SAY English then I get looked at and asked where I'm really from or where I'm from 'back home.
It's the same as say..how people describe Rachel Weisz as an English rose even though both her parents are from Hungary but you wouldn't get and Asian actress born in England described like that she'd be Bristish Asian.

@SagAloojah

QUOTE: @Yabbers leave off, @Magicroundabout321 says upthread
'I don't think you have to be born in England to be English. I think that's one reason why you might feel English, but there are so many factors.'.

She's not suggestimg what you think she's suggesting at all.
_

SagAloojah,

Many thanks for speaking up against troll/bullying behaviour.

You are quite right: I was not saying anything like what Yabbers' very confrontational post implied. Quite the opposite in fact.

This is an interesting discussion. Technically British citizenship can be gained by descent or by naturalisation. People born in the UK are not automatically British depending on the legal status of their parents at the time.

As is shown by the Windrush scandal- people who have lived here most of their lives are being asked to prove their nationality with documentation. May's 'hostile environment' has led to people of colour having their nationality questioned by officials. Trumps recent comments are equally worrying, legitimising the notion that people's nationality can be called in question due to the colour of their skin.

As to whether people feel English/British and should be seen as such. I think if you are born or brought up here or move to the uk and feel English/British this is a totally different thing to legal nationality. The polish child who has lived here since their were 3 and feels English can be English or Polish/English or Polish.

As someone who was born in Germany to a forces couple (English) - I count myself as British - I can't claim German nationality (I have actually looked into it at one point - but because my birth was registered with the British Consulate and I only spent a year or so at school there I can't)

However I actually identify more as Welsh now (lived here for almost 30 years, married a Welshman, kids are all educated through Welsh etc) would support Wales over England at sports (my brother was born in England and I'm not sure what he does over sports tbh I've seen him support both when they are playing other people - not sure if they played each other which he'd go for)

I would say I'm British/Welsh born to English parents

@Magicroundabout321 no worries at all

I’m 4th generation immigrant. Grandparents and parents are British citizens but we’re not white. When a stranger asks me where I’m —really— from I say something like ‘I was raised in the UK but my ancestors are from (country)’

You're 4th generation, you wouldn't even have the right to a passport by descent for the country your ancestors were from. Next time a racist stranger says 'where are you really from?' give then a Paddington Bear stare and say 'England'.

I'm white, from Hungarian Jewish heritage (dating back to 1842) mixed with English. I'm English, as are you OP.

This is all very thought provoking and far more interesting and complex than I realised when I started the thread.

Maybe the individual is getting confused because it usually had 'White British' as an option. But they're definitely wrong.

It's weird though how saying somebody is 'Indian' makes you think of a POC but 'English' doesn't make you automatically think of somebody white (general 'you' not literally you).

LordRudolphVII But that's because we're British. I remember being in Spain years ago and all the billboards had adverts for EFL school, the models advertising it all had pale skin, blue eyes and mousey hair (or rather more kindly the dark strawberry blond that British people hate because it's ubiquitous here and all foreigners I know love because it's unusual and exotic to them).