To disagree that only white people can be English

[Neome]

This idea popped up on a thread about something else entirely. I have white and asian heritage. It sounds like, in this person's view, I cannot describe myself as English only as British.

Aibu to say that being born in England I can reasonably describe myself as English and heritage and skin colour do not bar anyone from describing themselves as English?

Born in England = English.

I describe myself as British rather than English or Welsh or Scottish or whatever, but no one is unreasonable to pick whichever one suits.

What difference does it make if you are English or British? Same thing?

I was born in England but have lived in Wales for most of my life. I class myself as Welsh

@LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett not sure why they’d get an unpleasant reaction, no one round this way really gives a toss if you’re English, Scottish or a little green man from mars. Provided you don’t support Celtic then you’re fine as you are apparently!

Im born in england and am brown skinned. I call myself british. I think it comes from having british nationality. Ive never heard anyone say they have english nationality. I associate english with meaning white-skinned and having parents and grandparents born in england.

Of course you are English.

I am English. But call myself British. Would prob call myself English if asked, if in groups of folk from Scotland, Wales etc. though prob unnecessary as they could tell by my accent.

Yes yes. - I have British nationality and therefore perceive myself as British. But was born in the English part.

This is a subject I get a bit narked about.

I'm a half and half, so half English and half a mix of complicated other foreign stuff. I was born and brought up in England in a place where Englishness has a certain cultural meaning, and stands, quite starkly, in opposition to the notion of Britishness.

So, to me, Englishness is a cultural phenomenon that describes a certain way of being, thinking, and interacting with the world. It's old, pre-British Empire, Blakeian, soft, tolerant and regional ... whereas Britishness is Victorian, harsh, imperial, driven by elites, vicious, wears red coats and shoots foreign people.

So, even though I'm half-foreign, I see myself as English, rather than British. This upsets quite a few people, who have quite obviously decided that Englishness describes racist white yokels, whereas I see their obsession with non-ethnic whites having to be "British" as a legacy of colonialism and empire, as in: "Oh no, you can't be English. You're not 100% white and that would mess up our imperialist classifications of various populations under our control. How would we know how to divide and rule if you were entitled to call yourself English?!"

Haha! I rebel! T

I like Englishness. I self-identify as an Englishwoman.

Now pass the clotted cream, and do come out and look at my roses.

I say im british, would also say i come from England or am English

Say im welsh when it suits me as i was born there

I always describe myself as British as am English & lived for a long time in Wales so prefer not to make the distinction.

Many mixed heritage folk are more English than me. My mum was a refugee.

If you are born in England then you can call yourself English. I don't think you can if you weren't born here, I love Wales but wasn't born here so I can't call myself Welsh.

Unfortunately my father is like this (very unpleasant man whom I'm nc with)
It goes back to some ancient English law that says that you have your fathers nationality, though the same is not true in Scotland where anyone who is born there is automatically Scottish.
I don't personally agree with this just explaining the thought process that comes with this particular type of racism

I’ve always thought of English people as ethically English and everyone settled in England as British. Purely because that’s their nationality but I suppose that if someone is long term living in England there’s no reason why they can’t call themselves English. I’d feel word calling myself English because I’m really not but then again I wasn’t raised here. Obviously once I naturalise I will be British though.

@PackingSoapAndWater

It's old, pre-British Empire, Blakeian, soft, tolerant and regional ... whereas Britishness is Victorian, harsh, imperial, driven by elites, vicious, wears red coats and shoots foreign people.

Oooh, interesting, Packing. Haven't ever considered it this way.

I see other people as English if they sound it when they speak

I’m English by birth. I don’t sound it.

@Teddybear45

Oh that's interesting! I love it when there's such a mixture.

She was from Nagaland in India. Here's a photo of a girl from Nagaland:

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Tangkhul_Naga_Woman_in_traditional_attire.jpg

Anniegetyourgun You are European - no one can take that away from you. The UK is in Europe, geographically, culturally and historically.

And of course Neome you do not need to be white to be English! What silly racist nonsense is that - so Meera Syal, Diane Abbott, David Lammy, Idris Elba, Stormzy and million of others are not English? Honestly! Take no notice of this racist nonsense and wear your Englishness with panache.

YANBU op.
The whole thing baffles me. I'm 3rd gen so born and raised. I'm very a typical English if you were to be stereotypical.
My dad is one of 'those' people who see white english as true english; don't really understand why he likes to tell his mixed race daughter these appalling views... so I NC.
I'm english I'm British I'm mixed race.
Enjoying a cup of Yorkshire tea as we speak.

People actually think that??

@Yabbers

You've taken my comment out of context - I was listing various things that made me think someone was English, and that was one of many.

There are lots of reasons why an English person might not sound English when they speak, so I am obviously not saying that you have to sound English to be English!!! Only that if someone does, then it makes me think they're probably English.

MissingTheMissletoe

I do this! Partly because one of my parents is Scottish so actually I don't think I am English whatever people might conclude from my accent. Partly because I'm sick to death of the small but vocal minority of people who act as though DH and I have done something morally reprehensible by, er, moving house, and I don't see why I should let them "other" us.

Surely then by that logic white people can never be classed as Australian or American?

This is a problem caused by the human obsession with categorising everyone and putting them in boxes, when the reality is so much more nuanced and interesting.

These words are used to mean so many things - citizenship status, cultural heritage and genetic inheritance. There is a significant percentage of the population for whom these overlap entirely, so that they are British passport holders, born in the UK to people from this island for at least 500 years. However, while the designations overlap, they are distinct. So yes, you can be a British passport holding English woman with Asian ancestry. Equally, you might have a friend who has English ancestry, holds an American passport and was brought up in France. They can effectively choose to categories themselves as any or all of these. The same goes for you.

I think it’s possible to be Scottish and Irish and welsh and a person of colour because, on the whole, in those nations skin colour and nationality is separate. Most racist piece of shites there could tell a brown person with a scottish / irish / welsh accent they aren’t that nationality because in those nations accent and birth equals nationality. That’s not the case and has never been the case in England

Note the name of the Tweeter here.