To disagree that only white people can be English

[Neome]

This idea popped up on a thread about something else entirely. I have white and asian heritage. It sounds like, in this person's view, I cannot describe myself as English only as British.

Aibu to say that being born in England I can reasonably describe myself as English and heritage and skin colour do not bar anyone from describing themselves as English?

I forgot to reply to the OP! YANBU. Englishness is not an ethnic identity - if you consider yourself English then of course you can describe yourself that way. In my experience people who use it synonymously with "white" are twats.

Of course you are English .

Sorry OP yanbu...forgot to say it

I'm mixed heritage, but all white European heritage so these kinds of accusations are not something I have to ever deal with, and I'm sorry that you and other English people do. It's utter tosh. England has always been a melting pot and it's a great strength.

@isitwhatitis If you are born in England then you can call yourself English. I don't think you can if you weren't born here,

So my parents are not English, I was not born in England but I was not born in the counties of my parents birth, they were in my birth country for work so yes my nationality is of that country but we left when I was 4. I have lived in England my whole life since.
What shall I call my self?

Luckily I've not seen that thread as I'd be fucking furious.

I'm born in London and am a dual national. Have lived in England most of my life and call myself English rather than British as I have no experience with Scottish, Welsh and North Irish culture and life in those areas of the UK.

One of my kids has 2 passports as he born in the EU and I was an expat there. He calls himself English too as he's lived in England the longest and I raised him in an English way (we'd collect conkers in the autumn, celebrate Xmas on the 25th etc)

I'm really confused by the notion that only people born in England are English. That makes my siblings and I different nationalities to each other and our parents lol

@pikapikachu yep I'm exactly the same I call myself English.

Are you sure they weren't discussing the difference between nationality and ethnicity?

My nationality is English/British depending on the options on the form - ethnicity is White/British

Very stressed mum - It is confusing, but I would say you were British, as although you weren't born here you have lived here most of your life. I would also say that people who were born in England are English.

I don't think you have to be born in England to be English. I think that's one reason why you might feel English, but there are so many factors.

I've got a friend and neither of her parents are English (or even British). She was born abroad, and only lived in the UK for a few years when she went to primary school. She left again for secondary school. Now, she's back in England and says she feels English. Her English sounds native from her time here as a child, and she's native in her Mum's language too (where she went to secondary school).

Language is a big part of identity I think.

My parents are immigrants and I was born in London and have lived my whole life in the UK (I am white). I describe myself as British, not English. Have never felt English and was certainly not considered English by those around me as a child. Quite a few didn't even consider me to be white (Mediterranean heritage) - I was called half caste at school.

When given the choice I call myself European. That covers everything.

I know I’m not the first to say it but if you’re born in England then you are English! I’m 3/4 English 1/4 Scottish - but born and raised in England so... English 😊

@isitwhatitis my MIL was born in Nigeria to two Kiwi parents of British extraction and lived out there until she was 19, going to boarding school in England and never having any other passport than British. Is she not British then?

OP, YANBU. That said my mother is Irish, my father is North African. I was born and bred here. I look white, I have a Home Counties accent and no one has ever accused me of not being British but I feel...nothing. In quite a freeing way. I don’t feel tethered to any particular identity or country and am looking forward to my Irish passport coming through to guarantee my being a citizen of Europe regardless of what happens!!

Of course YANBU.
Citizenship of a country and race are two completely different things!
If a country has certain rules about citizenship, such as Ireland allowing anyone who has a parent or grandparent born on the Island of Ireland being able to class themselves as an Irish citizen - those rules dictate your citizenship. So - if born in England then you are English. Or British - whichever you prefer.
Your race is dictated by your genes. This is completely different as it is not a man made construct like citizenship is.

not sure why they’d get an unpleasant reaction, no one round this way really gives a toss if you’re English, Scottish or a little green man from mars.

That is easy to say when you are white or leave in a multicultural area, go to a place with less cultural variety and the moment you say you are English, everybody feels the need to explain to you why you are not.

Obviously, you do not ever get such reactions if you are white with a local accent (and a name that doesn’t give the game away). So white people tend to be clueless about the kind of racists that live among them. Older people are the worse by far.

Live, not leave...

Sorry - forgot to say that you don’t have to be born in England to be English/British. If someone is born in say, Peru, and decide to emigrate to England. And they do whatever is necessary to live and work here (no idea about English/British immigration law) then they too, are British/English. If they have to denounce their Peruvian citizenship then they are no longer Peruvian. If they don’t, that have dual citizenship.

Their race could be white/black/Asian it wouldn’t make a difference!

Nationality is not the same as ethnicity you can be any race and still be British or English.
I understand why you are asking the question though only this week Mathew Parrish wrote in the Times that second generation immigrants can’t expect to be seen as British and you need a few generations to integrate. Appalling that in this day being born in Britain is not enough in some people’s eyes and outrageous for a national news paper to print such a view.

I understand why you are asking the question though only this week Mathew Parrish wrote in the Times that second generation immigrants can’t expect to be seen as British and you need a few generations to integrate

Christ, what a load of shite! How can some journalist just ‘decide’ what makes someone British? Our country has its own defined laws on citizenship!

I'm also of the belief that born in England = English.
That's regardless of skin colour, your parents' place of birth or where you now live.

I call myself British for the person who'd never heard anyone refer to themselves as that 🙄

well I'm disappointed in Matthew Parris

but yes OP, I'm not white and have often had people question my Englishness because of it.

itiswhatitis and martinidry your logic is extremely narrow.

My parents are were both born in England and both families English for hundreds of years. I've lived all but 9 of my 42 years in England (5 years abroad as a child, 4 years of uni in Edinburgh).

But I was born in Zambia before coming back to England at the age of 9 months so by your logic can't be English?