PIL and Housing

[exculpatrix]

So, to set out the starting premise: My partner's parents offered to buy us a house in January. Before I say anything else I want to note that I am hugely grateful for this. It's a massively nice thing to do, and I very much appreciate the financial burden involved. Getting a house in London is pretty much the same as a decent size lottery win, and I don't want anyone to think I'm not very thankful for the offer.

With that caveat out of the way, I have some issues with things, and I want to know if I'm being out of line or not. Issues:

1. They want a lot of say in things. They keep saying it should be a "forever home" where we're happy, but they also keep trying to tell us where it should be. We live in Kings Cross at the moment, and are looking at areas a bit further out but with good transport links such as Colliers Wood, Colindale, Walthamstow, and Leytonstone. Her parents seem determined that we should live somewhere like Stevenage, St Albans, or Chorley Wood, and just ignore us whenever we say those places are too far out. For reference, I've lived my whole life in London, have moved around it a lot, and my dad is a licensed black cab driver who did the knowledge and taught me a lot about different bits of London. I know this city well. Her parents live in Yorkshire and spend as little time down here as possible. They don't know what this city is like.

1. Their organisation. They made this offer to us in January. They only spoke to their accountant about the practicality of it this week. I appreciate that house buying isn't a fast process, but they are dragging their heels at every step. My partner hates living where we do at the moment and is desperate to get out, but they seem in no rush to do anything.

1. Their lack of communication. It's only this week that they've given us a rough idea of budget, and even then they won't give us an actual number for what our upper limit is, which makes it hard to work out what we can realistically look at. They also won't discuss housing around me at all. This stresses my partner out to no end. She doesn't want to have to play messenger, running back and forth between us, but they're not giving her much choice. They've apparently pretty much made it clear to her that I'm considered a plus one, so my opinion doesn't matter, so there's no point involving me in the conversation.

1. And this is the kicker: Apparently her dad has now said that he thinks I should get a mortgage and contribute to the cost of the house. For the record: her parents are minted. They don't need the money I would add to afford this place. They can drop £800k on a house and not even really notice. I'm a mid level civil servant, I could get about £120k on a mortgage max. So it's not the case that they need me to contribute. Her dad just thinks I should have "skin in the game" to make things fair. This is a new development, and certainly wasn't mentioned when they made the offer. I made career decisions based on their offer (could have taken a 3 year posting in New York and lived rent free in Manhattan the whole time, but chose to stay in London because I thought we were getting a house), so am feeling a bit miffed that they're changing the terms of the offer on us.

I guess I have a couple of questions:

A) AIBU to think that they're making this harder than it needs to be? And that if they're going to make the offer they shouldn't then turn around and change the terms?

B) Could I even get a mortgage? Her parents want to keep the house in their name for at least a few years, so that if anything goes wrong between us I can't lay a claim on it. Which is fair enough, I can understand wanting to protect your investment. But I feel pretty sure a bank won't lend me any kind of money if the house isn't in my name, because then the bank has no security on their loan?

DO NOT DO IT. We have fallen into this trap and bitterly regret it. They are not buying you a house, they are feathering their own nest, trapping you both whilst making themselves look good. DPs 'bought us a house' which in practice means we had a very limited choice and are paying through the nose for a house we dont own but with the added ball ache that the landlords are family. We pay all the bills so the only bonus is that they pay to maintain it and we get a discount on rent. Let's say we can save £500 a month, well great that's a lot, but actually the house is much bigger than we could afford so the bills and travel costs are higher than we pay otherwise. Could you to afford an 800k house, no, and you probably can't afford to run one either. It's a money pit and we are left with no assets of our own whilst we effectively increase my parents assets. Also why the fuck would you pay the mortgage (or part of it) without your name on the deeds to? If this crazy plan goes ahead and i advise you to really not do it, be clear that they are buying their daughter a house not you and you will therefore not be taking out a mortgage given that it wont be in your name anyway and they wont even discuss it with you. I would also readdress the power balance and be clear about the opportunities you have passed on because your partner wants the house. As the daughter in this I can tell you that being piggy in the middle has been awful.

I think OP is a woman...for all those saying 'he'

I didn’t think OP was a man.

blackcat are you the poster who needed to move out because the house was basically a money pit? Agree, there’s no point ending up with someone else’s choice of house.

No chance, I'd rather live in a tent than accept this offer.

Umm interesting conundrum.

However one looks at this they don't like you. How much does your wife like them? Will they be very involved in your lives? Will your wife expect you to visit every holiday, Xmas etc.

Being around people who dislike you this much is soul destroying.

That’s a shame about New York

The five year rule is bonkers as you guys are married

I’m sad they don’t treat you as part of the family

What does your wife think

@IncandescentShadow - how can the OP get a mortgage on a house that is not in their name ? It cant be done . When the house is actually gifted it is a different matter . There could be a mortgage at that stage and the money could go to the parents - Or as the OP stated they would sign an agreement about limited rights to the property in the event of a split . At the moment this is NOT a gift - the parents will own the house and let them live rent free - until they decide to gift it .

Hmm yes they do seem rather annoying. An amazing gift they are offering you, but such generosity can really be a double edged sword. Dangling a nice juicy carrot in front of you but then calling all the shots on where when how you get to have it. I'm afraid they will def want to have a say in how the 800k is spent but if you are smart with them you could make them feel like what you want was their idea. Presumably they got that rich/stayed that rich by being smart with money. In terms of Greater London areas Colliers Wood property prices have been growing at a much higher rate than those of say St Albans. Maybe pull some of the data and say something along the lines of "we would love St Albans but I want to make sure that your daughters investment (and yours obvs but don't say) grows over time and given the fraught property market due to brexit etc I want to ensure that the investment grows and doesn't stay flat". You are more likely to get what you want that way.

Re getting a mortgage it's probably fair for them to want you to do so and presumably you would anyway a few years down the line but maybe you could get your wife to speak to her parentals about your mortgage being incremental to the amount they were already planning on giving, so for example if they were going to give 800k you could say you want their daughter to have the nicest house you can afford so with your mortgage you could look in the 900k region. Or they buy you guys a house for 800k that needs doing up, and your mortgage pays for this.

Why do you keep referring to her as your partner rather than your wife? If this is your general behaviour then maybe her DPs see a lack of commitment in you and that’s why they’re acting this way.

IncandescentShadow sounds like the PIL - very personal comments

Also I probably wouldn't broadcast you work for the FCO on mumsnet, these government boffins have all kind of algorithms as you probs know to stop top secret government stuff getting out, might get you in trouble at work (or might not, but not worth the risk if you can get that New York posting back on the table.....)

@Rosawaiting no I've noted posted about it before but it is a little bit of a money pit I guess. I know most renters make the place look nice but DH has done loads of work to the garden and we've furnished it nicely which was noted when the property was last valued. Theres something that makes me feel so much more bitter that we either use our own money to do the garden for example and my parents benefit from that or we live with a house that isn't how we like it. It's a shit situation. I'm saving like mad but I've only just gone back to work from mat leave so it's a bad time to do anything. Sigh

SusieOwl @IncandescentShadow - how can the OP get a mortgage on a house that is not in their name ? It cant be done . When the house is actually gifted it is a different matter . There could be a mortgage at that stage and the money could go to the parents - Or as the OP stated they would sign an agreement about limited rights to the property in the event of a split . At the moment this is NOT a gift - the parents will own the house and let them live rent free - until they decide to gift it .

Several ways of arranging it. Many people would choose to pay their own way rather than take from people anyway. A good way to do it would be for her to be gifted a share by her parents and for the other party to buy part of it with a mortgage, or for the other party's contribution to be mortgage only and hers deposit only. Perhaps not the £800,000 figure banded around. There doesn't seem to be any agreement at all at the moment.

If there had been something in writing from a solicitor with even a set of options clearly laid out then that would be something to justify turning down a job opportunity, but given that its so much money, and it takes time and sometimes separate tax years for even wealthy people to transfer that amount of money (particularly if its held in stocks and shares or some other financial device), its baffling that someone would expect this to be done in such a rush.

This would all be much simpler if they just made you a large gift of money and you then used it to buy a house.

What a shame you missed the opportunity to live in NYC rent free.

The money that PILs are putting forward to buy a house is their family money. Not your DW (yet). I don't see why you should live rent free and bill free at the expense of PILs. PILs could be trying to ensure that any DGC will be living in a decent area.
My family tried something similar. It was family money any property bought would be family property. This was not to the liking of some people, notably the non working, non paying types, so it did not go ahead.
The result is relatives living in very rough areas, children being brought up in drink drugs criminal areas. It does not look good.
A point I would make if people are able to amass a fair old bit of money maybe they are smart and know a lot more than the rest of us.

I had a friend who worked for the FCO and was posted to NY and lived there in a lovely central located apartment for 2 years. He was allowed to say he worked for the FCO, but couldn’t give any more details about what he did - I think it was more of an administrative type role.

I'm not actually a prick or a soulless piece of ass. I'm a solicitor, and men like you hate people like me because unfortunately we've heard it all before from men like you. Your little comment about allowing your wife to develop her career is a nice, but meaningless touch. Its not as if you actually do care about her career, is it?

THIS IS WHY I COME TO MUMSNET.

I agree with this poster 100%.

If I was the daughter, I would be putting my big girl knickers on and telling mum & dad that you are my husband and we do things together!!
I’m not discussing or taking anything to do with a house unless you are involved.
This could cause huge rifts in your marriage between you both.

Do they even like you? Doesn’t sound like it.

The gift should come unconditionally
They give you a price, you both decide where.

They could get there solicitor to put into into both your names, but
In the invent of divorce you have no claim.

But I’d be thinking, if anything happened to wife
Where would you live then?

I agree with this poster 100%.

Except it appears that OP is not, in fact, a man.

Irrevelant whether its a man or a woman. People change details on mumsnet all the time to avoid being identified too. Its still an appalling attitude towards the PIL giving money. So many red flags.

I’m not sure OP is male. Not that it makes any difference to the situation - just before he thread gets derailed into gender issues.

Incandescent, how do you suggest OP gets a mortgage on a property that’s in the names of two other people?

I wonder if you have given away too much identifying information?

It doesn't matter whether the OP is a man, woman or alien, it's the attitude towards the PIL which isn't right. Something about this thread doesn't ring true.

You are breathtakingly entitled.

Don’t do it. To her or yourself. Say bysies to all concerned of DFO to Manhatten