To worry about the resilience of adults

[MyKingdomForACaramel]

Am not trying to come across as goady or insensitive but have seen a distinct upturn recently both irl and online of adults not being able to deal with, what are essentially day to day life/set backs in a rational way -what was once a mishap is now a crisis.

To be clear I’m not talking l about those suffering with mental health issues (I have had my own), but more generally

No. It’s not just my personal option. Studies which acknowledge the benefits of nature and exercise for MH issues are widespread, and treatment is often tailored to include it. Walking to school is exercise. Walking outside is nature.

That's a bit of a desperate extrapolation. Just because a young child is not walking to school without parents doesn't mean that they are not getting exercise. They may be walking with parents or getting exercise in other ways. Few of DDs friends have ever walked to her secondary school and many are extremely fit. One is a very fast long distance runner and competes for the county.

Ok.

You said walking to school has had zero impact on your children’s MH. Here -

My children walked to school from about year 5 with their friends and I'm pretty sure it has had zero impact on their mental health as older teenagers or adults.

I said studies show walking does have an impact. Remember this part?

There are studies which show the link between good mental health and physical exercise, as well as the positive impact of being in nature

You then said

So it’s your personal opinion then.

I showed you evidence of how walking and exercise HAVE BENEFITED YOUR CHILDRENS MENTAL HEALTH.

Ffs you are such a difficult person, go for a fucking walk.

I showed you evidence of how walking and exercise HAVE BENEFITED YOUR CHILDRENS MENTAL HEALTH.

You haven't showed me evidence that walking to school with their friends rather than me has benefited their mental health at all! Firstly the exercise was the same whoever they did it with. Secondly the exercise from the walk to school (about 10 mins walk) was a fraction of the total exercise they did each day anyway.

Walking regardless of the destination is useful to mental health. I don’t have a study on walking to school versus aimless walking vs walking to the shops vs walking around in circles like your arguments.

Apply for a grant and do the study. It’ll keep you off mumsnet.

Walking regardless of the destination is useful to mental health. I don’t have a study on walking to school versus aimless walking vs walking to the shops vs walking around in circles like your arguments.

When I said that it was just your personal opinion I was referring to the opinion that walking to school by themselves rather than with parents at a young age will have an impact on mental health as adults as this is what the discussion is about. I didn't state that exercise per se didn't effect mental health so your links are irrelevant.

I think at one time it was more acceptable to just have a job that paid the bills, a clean house and children, and be relatively satisfied rather than looking for constant happiness.

Now you need to be following your bliss, with a fulfilling career or one that you hate that earns a lot of money, high achieving, happy, children who are getting the most out of childhood and a spouse or partner who fills your every desire. Even if you do manage to get all of those things I imagine it must be stressful trying to keep them.

So partly it's high expectations and partly its the economy, you can't really opt out of the rat race or working long hours anymore without having to worry about money for 2/3 weeks out of every month.

*fufil

One of the issues which seems to be increasing as a challenge in secondary school is students unable to hand things in on time, meet deadlines and generally organise themselves. Some can of course, but those who can’t seem to expect chance after chance, and seem amazed when you say they can’t come on a trip because after three reminders, they still haven’t handed in the consent form.

A forgotten pen is never their fault. There is an expectation that pens will be handed out so why bother checking you have one? Accountability to an age appropriate level has never been so lacking.

I think this thread has got somewhat sidetracked on one minor issue.

It is the fact that adults take responsibility for their children from dawn to dusk. Parents get them up and take them to school, then teachers make sure that they have done their homework and offer clinics/catch up classes to those who have not. Finally parents take them home again, help them with their homework, cook for them and send them to bed. It has even become the norm for parents to go around universities with their nearly adult children.

All the above is sacrificing long term resilience for short term gain. To develop resilience, you need to practise.

It is the fact that adults take responsibility for their children from dawn to dusk. Parents get them up and take them to school, then teachers make sure that they have done their homework and offer clinics/catch up classes to those who have not. Finally parents take them home again, help them with their homework, cook for them and send them to bed. It has even become the norm for parents to go around universities with their nearly adult children.

What age children are you talking about? I don't know any secondary school age children who are looked after from dawn to dusk. Maybe you do but don't extrapolate that to everyone else.

Dungeondragon you are getting very tedious now in fact you sound exactly like one of my dcs when they just want to drag out bedtime

FredaFrogspawn
That sounds familiar.
I'm aware of a situation where a parent complained to the governing body because their child was unfairly excluded from an enrichment trip (maybe they'd seen on MN that governors love this sort of letter).

The information went out to all pupils in good time. The student handed a partially completed form in a week after the deadline. As a result their name didn't go in the draw.

I always wonder how those children will turn out. Some end up finding their parents' stiffling and are the students who apologise to us the day after parents' evening for their parents' conduct. Others end up being the wrapped in cotton wool, someone hold my hand and face my battles for me types.

What I see nowadays is the removal of opportunities to make mistakes, to completely wrap the child in cotton wool so that they are utterly removed from all challenges - even that of making their own lunch or walking to the shop to get some milk.

It is the fact that adults take responsibility for their children from dawn to dusk. Parents get them up and take them to school, then teachers make sure that they have done their homework and offer clinics/catch up classes to those who have not. Finally parents take them home again, help them with their homework, cook for them and send them to bed.

I don't see this at all. I have children aged 10- 20 years old and do not know many children who are wrapped up in cotton wool.

I have never met one child who has no opportunities to make mistakes or who are utterly removed from any challenges. It just isn't possible to be removed from all challenges in this life.

I think it is easy to blame parenting when really, we are just looking at things through rose tinted glasses. I think children today have a lot more pressures on them than ever before and I don't see less resilience, just more open and honest talk about feelings.

Resilience means the ability to recover from adversity. We have a lot more stressors in life now and I do see people suffering with stress more often, but I don't see all these people not being able to recover from adversity.

There does appear to be more "catastrophising" nowadays.

My eldest (she is 18 - not a 12 year old) just does not see that it is ok to be sad sometimes, it is ok to feel down, that being unable to do what you want to do when you want to do it just HAPPENS sometimes. You don't have to weep and wail about every little thing - it is normal.

She is of the view - the same view as many apparently - that life is all about her happiness, that she must feel happy and fulfilled all the time. Life is biting her on the bum and she does not like it - I think she hates the fact that she is living a normal everyday life - a few highs, a few lows, but mostly muddling along in the middle - which nowadays is "not good enough" - especially for her - a teen at the prime of her life.

God, she is going to be sent to the "Stately Homes thread" if she ever comes on here.

I agree @BeyondMyWits there is an expectation that everything has to be straightforward and they cannot cope with any bumps in the road.

I do think that our modern lifestyles, busy families, poor diets,lack of exercise, overscheduled kids, academic pressures and social media all have a part to play. Teens spend less and less time interacting with the real world and spend almost as much time online in a day as they do at school. Is it any wonder then that they cannot cope with everyday stresses?

I also wonder if all the awareness and talk of MH although welcome has become a self fulfilling prophecy? DC Y8 said that the school talk about MH so much that she started to think that being worried about an upcoming maths test meant that she had anxiety. Then not only was she worried about maths she was worried that she might have a MH problem, luckily we talked about it and with lots of explaining about different MH issues she felt reassured that being worried about a maths test was perfectly fine. However you can see how things can get out of proportion in the mind of a young person.

Haven't teenagers always been a bit hedonistic and self-absorbed? haven't they always railed against their limitations? I could imagine your complaint, BeyondmyWits, about the first 'teenagers' of the 1950s and 1960s, just couched in slightly different language (probably involving conformity and duty).

I do think the (very positive) introduction of a vocabulary for MH struggles has pushed the pendulum over the other way, meaning young people use this vocabulary to articulate (and in our eyes over-dramatise) 'normal bumps in the road'. I do assume that for most of them, things settle down with time and perspective. I don't think the answer is to take this vocabulary away again and send us back to the bad old days of shame around MH.

Backintime - you have a point

DD often tells me about X on a short time table or Y in a MH unit or Z attending listening sessions at school.

We have been invited to Emergency MH training sessions, via work, kids can’t cope because they can’t switch off

A growing number of people see so emotionally needy these days and weak.

DH is a military officer and is at the moment, training new recruits. The resilience of some of these recruits, teenagers and 20 somethings is poor. Some of the parents treat it like it’s an extension of school or some kind of scout group. Phoning up / posting on social media asking how their child is and moaning that they haven’t seen any photos of little Tommy on the official social media sites.

Your child has joined the MILITARY not a holiday camp.

Some of the recruits also have an “attitude” that gets knocked out of them by the time they pass out. If not, they are discharged. Breaking the rules about using mobile phones, sending naked photos of each other on WhatsApp, whining about doing exercises in the cold and wet etc.

Some of the comments (lies) made up about staff and written on the end of course feedback sheets are shocking. Health and safety is taken VERY seriously indeed and recruits are never put at risk. I know the staff DH works with and they do so much for their recruits yet have it thrown back in their faces.

At one time, not so long ago, there were no mobile phones, no social media and recruits slept in huts!

Basket, in can imagine that the military has altered a lot over the years but it always has been the same about so called 'snowflake' behaviour as I recall a colleague of mine marrying someone who was in the Royal Navy and he joined early in the 1980s.
He said that his dad was also in the military ( long before him of course ) and he said that his son ' had it easy and they were all fat and lazy , the fitness test had changed and they
didn't know they were born! ' I'm sure this is now repeated by him as well even though he is now retired. ( he also used to moan about the conditions and housing that was allocated but now puts on social media about how good it was it all was etc etc)

We all wear rose covered glasses sometimes about how hard or easy life was ' back in the day' and I admit I do the same too ! My parents said it about me because I didn't live through the war as they both did. Which did rankle a bit as teen as I couldn't help being born 20 years after it finished!

Dungeondragon you are getting very tedious now in fact you sound exactly like one of my dcs when they just want to drag out bedtime

You sound like someone who is unable to make an intelligent comment and actually contribute to the debate so resorts to insulting other posters.

I don't see this at all. I have children aged 10- 20 years old and do not know many children who are wrapped up in cotton wool.

I totally agree and I can't help wonder at the posters who insist that this is the case. Whilst most probably don't actually have children this age I can't help wonder if those that do are "wrapping the own children in cotton wool (if that is actually possible) and telling themselves that everyone else is doing the same thing. In reality, even if someone is a very protective parent they can't prevent their children failing exams, falling out with friends etc etc.

We all wear rose covered glasses sometimes about how hard or easy life was ' back in the day' and I admit I do the same too ! My parents said it about me because I didn't live through the war as they both did. Which did rankle a bit as teen as I couldn't help being born 20 years after it finished!

Too true. That is what always makes me roll my eyes when people start going on about the "youth" today. I remember people saying the same thing 20 years ago (probably when many of the posters were themselves teenagers) and 20 years before that. I'm sure that it has happened since the beginning of time.

I understand what you mean, I've had trouble with this myself. Due to emotional abuse at home I wasn't allowed to feel sad or angry, only happy or scared. Which led to me becoming quite emotionally scared - terrified to express emotion, expectation that I should be happy all of the time, thinking that showing emotion was weak etc. Couple this with a controlling mother who never allowed me to try any household chores or have any independence, and you have a 18yo going to uni with no idea on how to boil pasta!

I'm better now. I learnt to cook for a start, and I recently moved away from home. I'm working hard on reversing many of my beliefs and find it really hard to deal with feeling sad. I'm also recovering from addiction, incidentally many addicts I know say they felt afraid to show emotions too.

My self confidence is coming on leaps and bounds and I'm in therapy which is really helping me.

You see things at the office that are so minor yet a big fuss is made over them - eg my new job is Inherently stressful. It's target based and very long days,quite a high pressured job. Yet we now have mindfulness days on our company where a colleague can take a day , paid, off to reconnect. No requirement for previous MH issues or a diagnosis, just take as you fancy.

I Don't think the overkeen labelling particularly helps either. Anxiety for example- anyone who is a little bit anxious has anxiety now. It's normal to feel down sometimes, it's normal to feel anxious about certain events eg starting a new job. Labelling anyone who gets a bit anxious sometimes as having anxiety actually diminishes real sufferers experience. Also , on a personal side - I don't know if I have anxiety or not.. I know I'm more anxious than most and my self confidence is on the floor. But if I were to tell myself I have anxiety so getting to work is a massive thing, that then lays the groundwork for the day I feel a bit anxious to say I'm not going to work. Whereas if you acknowledge it but don't let it define you that helps.

All those who say this is the way it has always been - then why do so many who have worked with children, young people and students for decades say that they have seen a big change in the last 5-8 years?
I hear this time and time again. Like the woman I know who is a reception teacher in a middle class area and says that more and more kids do not know how to do basics like put their coat on. She says after the first term it is very rare for all the kids not to be able to do the basic things that a child starting school should be able to do - because she has taught them how to do these things.

At the other end, university lecturers did not have parents phoning up all the time about their adults kids grades, essays or other issue that their adult child should be sorting out themselves.

These are concrete examples. Not some rose tinted memory.

Children brought up in care and left to their own devices are often the least resilient to adversity as adults.
I know a number of adults who have been in care who are incredibly resilient. It is not being in care that makes you unresilient, it is as a young child not having one adult who loved and cared for you. That adult does not have to be a parent.