To worry about the resilience of adults

[MyKingdomForACaramel]

Am not trying to come across as goady or insensitive but have seen a distinct upturn recently both irl and online of adults not being able to deal with, what are essentially day to day life/set backs in a rational way -what was once a mishap is now a crisis.

To be clear I’m not talking l about those suffering with mental health issues (I have had my own), but more generally

Haven’t read all replies but think jenny was addressing me
I do have chronic health issues, if I need a day sick I take one. That doesn’t mean I take all days off, yes I do feel crap most days but there’s a difference between that and actually needing a day off sick, I thought the pp was complaining about people taking needed days off sick.

Re unions yes but the young ones aren’t getting that support so if they take sick days and holiday days...again, not seeing a problem.

I’m really glad I’m not young because the financial future would terrify me.

Eldest DC, the one with autism, has spent his first year at uni astonished by the number of his counterparts who can't cook for themselves, can't understand how to manage money, can't hold down a part-time job, can't meet deadlines, whose parents had to clean their rooms at the beginning and end of term etc

Sounds normal. It was the same when I was at university 20+ years ago. Young men in particular were useless, I had to show a few how to use the machine in the launderette, and persuade them not to put a whole box of powder in. If you went round to a house that was all guys it was clear than not one of them knew one end of the hoover from the other.

Dungeondragon15 - as I said in my earlier post - yes, some of them are. They haven't been on public transport, have never bought groceries, cooked a meal for themselves or been left home alone for anything more than a few hours.

I don't know any teenagers that are like that and neither does DD who is also at university. I'm sure that they exist they are unusual and they existed in the 80s too when I was a teenager. Perhaps if you do it is more of a reflection of your own children and their friends rather than the "youth today".

Love51 I hope you can get a job that entails less stress. It sounds awful.

Oh well, that's alright then. Now neither grown men nor women know how to do these seemingly, straightforward and basic tasks - what a step forward for mankind!

Dungeondragon15 I specifically said I was referring to friends of my DC!!!!!!

This is the usual excuse to have a go at younger generations for not being resilient, "entitled", "snowflakes" etc, usually by a generation that had everything handed to them on a plate - no tuition fees, student grants, could sign on in the summer during uni, secure employment, generous final salary pensions (paid for by the younger generations they are slagging off), reasonable rents and house prices that bore some relation to salaries, none of which is the case now.

I'm gen X and I think younger adults (millennial and below) have it incredibly tough- social media is terrible for mental health, taking on huge debt is seen as the norm, most have no chance of buying their own homes or saving for any kind of pension. Plus many do not come from stable, secure homes where they know they are always welcome. It's so depressing the number of posts on MN from people ready to turf out their step kids for trivial reasons. How unsettling it must be for these young kids.

Agreed Noel.

It's not great, Margo, but the point is that it has always happened, it isn't a feature of this generation alone.

the ever-increasing competition for university places

You're joking, right? In the old days one actually had to have good A-level grades to get into university; nowadays it appears three D's at AS level will do!

Erm I’m just about a millennial myself so not really

Dungeondragon15 I specifically said I was referring to friends of my DC!!!!!!

You said "what I see nowadays" which implies that all older teenagers are unable to use public transport or cook. I think that is fairly unusual and has always been the case. What has changed is the external pressures as described by Noel and that is far more likely to have an impact on mental health than whether they were potty trained at a young age or able to use public transport as teenagers.

I know three women that completely lack any kind of resilience and the thing they all have in common is their absolute focus is always on themselves. Any kind of knock back or challenging life event is treated as a crisis and they look to their partners, friends and familes to provide unyielding support and to prop them up. It really is a form of extreme fragility that forces everybody else to be super strong and resilient to counter balance their need for constant support and attention.

The worst example was when one of these women's partners lost their father. The level of grief appropriation was terrible and it left very little room for the poor partner to grieve at all.

I think these types of people have always existed and I think that it's probably a combination of nature and nurture that cements their character. I do also believe though that as society has become so much more accepting of mental health issues then it has become more taboo to suggest to someone behaving in a snowflakey manner that they need to persevere and not just give up when the going gets tough. Most of us will face adversity and have dark periods in our lives but we would struggle to function as a society, as family units and as support networks if we are looking for
extreme levels of support to help with every little hiccup we encounter.

I work in the youth sector so maybe I just feel closer to it. I think there are fantastic young people out there today, achieving amazing things and I hate all the talk of snowflakes or seeing young people put down.

And of course there have always been adults who weren't capable and were like giant babies, but all is not right in the world as it is at the moment.

I did say it was multi-causal but there are a more significant number of NT young people I think than in days gone by who are missing the most basic life skills. I cannot see how that is good for resilience in any way shape or form.

The surveys we do show that young people are outdoors less, are unsupervised less, are in employment less - so it is not just me making this stuff up.

I'm surprised people don't think it is worth exploring and think it is exactly as it has been in the past.

@NoelFridgeAntics Does "the generation that had everything handed to them on a plate" include women, who:
—could not take out loans or mortgages or hire purchase agreements. —required a husband's signature on a consent form for a caesarean
—had no paid maternity leave
etc

I think there are a lot more demands on people these days as a result of the way we live our lives. Technology has helped us all but it has downsides. So, for example, remote working should be a huge benefit, providing flexibility and control. But too often, it means people are "on" 24/7. I remember my mother telling me how she planned her wedding in her lunch hours and in the evenings. Because she had a good job but she worked 9-5 with an hour of downing tools so to speak every day. While I've almost never had a job that didn't require a certain amount of checking my phone and email constantly etc.

I also think that children are not encouraged to be independent. DS is naturally not very independent and it's made us more focused on getting him out and about. And it's really worked as he's been learning that if he's a bit nervous, but does it anyway, he'll benefit. But I wonder if I hadn't been consciously trying to teach him this, what might have happened.

ditto we're all so scared for our children we're not teaching them how to cope.So instead of giving them the tools to manage when they're out and about, we just keep them close. I see it at school with certain parents where the child literally is still treated the same way I treat DD who is 4.

I think it's great that we are becoming more tolerant and aware of mental health issues and removing the stigma, but hand in hand with that seems to come the 'cool labels for regular emotions' rubbish where mental health labels are misappropriated because people couldn't possibly be nervous, they must have anxiety. The problem with this is it trivializes mental health issues and makes it harder for those with very real issues to get support

Absolutely this, and the PP linked Guardian article.

I am genuinely sick to death of medical terminology being appropriated. Recent anecdotal examples:

Neighbour returned to car parked on double yellows to find a parking ticket. Apparently being 'traumatised' by the 'experience'.

Family member is 'so depressed' because child is on waiting list for over-sunscribed sports activity.

Friend is 'totally bi-polar' for two days each month.

None of these people are Millenials. All of these people are heavy users of FB, Twitter and Instagram. I'm no genius, but I think I might have spotted a link.

@Weezol None of these people are Millenials. All of these people are heavy users of FB, Twitter and Instagram.
And probably Mumsnet

I agree. I have even noticed the change in myself from being super laid back to quite anxious. I think social media has made society as individuals very inward focused on our lives as they compare to our peers.

Before social media I was an activist of sorts, always volunteering in the community, always trying to help improve the lives of those around me. I didn't earn much but gave at least 20% of what I earned to charity (with the goal of it one day being 90% as my earnings increased).

Now I'm materialistic, more selfish and only give 5-10% of what i earn to charity even though my income more than doubled in recent years. I know it's because I see the holidays my friends have, and the houses they live in and get envious and anxious.... all about me, me, me and what I don't have. I think I'm not alone in thinking this way and while there are positives to social media, the damage it has done to society and mental health is unprecedented.

A good point well made Kingdom. I hereby confess my hopeless addiction to The Litter Tray.

@Topsecretidentity 90%!!!

I think it's fair to say there is a bigger underclass of people these days who don't have basic life skills- that's because the previous lot and the ones before have gone on to have children and so on and the chain hasn't been broken by education and social mobility. At once we are cruel and kind as a society - in a more "survival of the fittest" society, a lot of people wouldn't survive, but at the same time, we tinker at problems and don't often don't truly help people or make difference for the next generation.

But I don't think it's true to say in general that adults are less resilient. I think we have a lot more, or just different things to cope with, and comparing us to previous generations is just comparing apples with oranges.

@Weezol - well that brings its own problems... assuming you also share your life with one of these superior beings, it can be extremely damaging - after all they ignore you, try to make you feel inferior and then disappear for hours on end. In fact cats definitely have resilience (9 lives even)

I must admit that my parents didn't expect me to do much around the home ( cooking or cleaning etc) and I wasn't left at home much as a teen because they rarely went anywhere and we didn't have a car! So I was quite spoilt really. This was 70s and 80s. However i did have to get a job at 16. College or uni wasn't for the 'likes of us working class types'

I found it hard at 24 to be out in the world when I got married and discovered that clothes didn't wash themselves and how to cook and clean : do the weekly shopping and all sorts. I Didn't get any help with anything then even when I had children had to learn the hard way !
Once you left home that was that.

Not sure if it worked , but I am able to do a lot of things on my own and had to get on with it. Dh worked away a lot when kids were little and you quickly learn new skills like unblocking loos or sinks and dealing with the finances etc. I think that today's youth go get more parents input but I think that's nice too as my dh and I had very little help.
A nice mix is good I think . My experiences were a bit uneven I think.

Life has peaks and troughs...

Many people can’t or don’t know how to deal with the troughs that life throws at them.

Troughs can be where you build resilience and not lose it. What’s the saying? ‘What doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger.’

But I think the difference is when a person has too many troughs to deal with at one time, say serious illness & job loss happening together. That would make even the hardiest of people have a wobble.

I think a lot of parents are so busy that it must be easy to fall into the trap of doing stuff of behalf of DC because it's quicker and easier than taking the time to teach them the skills to look after themselves. It extends from keeping toddlers in nappies and buggies longer all the way to doing all the cooking and laundry yourself because you have a system.