Is he unintentionally gaslighting me?

[Howdidido]

Me and DH (and he is really D) seem to have these arguments where I say something which i think is inoffensive and he takes great offense at but it seems to be for something else and then tells me he's not angry, I'm just acting crazy
E.g. this morning he said he wanted to go straight to my parents from swimming with DD. I said we'd have to come back first as I've made a cake for Ddad and it couldn't stay in the car. He seemed really pissed off. Then said he has so many things to do this morning..When I asked what they were so I could help he got annoyed (not shouting just irritated) that I didn't know what those things were and that I never was aware of what needed doing. I said I am, I'm just not aware of what's bothering him this morning so to please tell me so I could help with it.
He sulked off out of the room and refused to engage.
When he sulks off I get upset. I get confused as to what I've done wrong and tell him that I don't know but that seems to piss him off more.
It always ends with me shouting and begging to be told what I've done wrong and him staying calm and cold and saying I know already. And then denying he got annoyed at the original thing.
I want this to work. We've got DD and another on the way. I don't want him to be stressed and I want to help but he seems to think I should know what these things are and just get them sorted.
And I do, I do lots. I think I do anyway.

Bloody hell 'Projecting"......blinkered or what.

What do you want people to say OP?

the behaviour is learned it can be unlearned

Oh that this were true!! A tiny percentage take responsbility for treating women this way.

A percentage so small it's not worth hanging around for, and why do you just accept that this is how it's going to be for the rest of your life, settling for being treated like this and always being shut down, is settling for not good enough.

As for pp saying she needs to talk/talk to him and other similar, did you not read that he's told her straight he's not talking?

You negate OPs efforts to talk to him, she's said already she's tried that. It's a brick wall.

Be mindful of doing things in response, because someone who shuts you down like this will not want to be ignored, or laughed at and could likely provoke physical. Whether you believe that or not, don't take the risk.

You can spend your life walking on eggshells around this, walk your own path instead

He needs to be told that you know he is manipulating you and it is stupid and you won't put up with it any longer. He might think he is being clever and doing it without you realising.

Please be careful if you stay with him. My daughter was in a relationship where the boy did this all the time, using silence to punish her for no reason at all so she would pay hom more attention and have to beg for him to stop beinng a knob. Took her 2 years to realise she was being manipulated like that and end it. Now she loathes him, but before I couldn't get her to realise how she was being treated was so wrong.

Do all MN threads go from balanced suggestions and advice to criticisms of someone asking for advice?
I think being called a silly mare is not helpful. I think being told I'm being stupid and blind when all you have to go on is one situation is not helpful.
I appreciate the not extreme advice. I'm not going to leave him. When he's not in a bad mood (which is most of the time!) He's great
He could equally have come on and said my wife doesn't see all the things that need doing. And that would be his side.
His way of dealing with anger is to bottle it up and sulk. Yes it's childish. Yes is hugely frustrating to me. Yes he needs to stop it.
But I'm not going to leave him because of it. We have 1, nearly 2 kids. We have a pretty pleasant life. No relationship is perfect
I want to sort this. I want him to stop acting that way (and I'm pretty sure he would rather I not shout at him!) And I wanted advice on how to approach that. And to check i wasn't being unreasonable to expect him to stop. I can see I'm not unreasonable. So thank you all for that.
And I appreciate that those of you with experience of similar situations are offering advice from a good place. So thanks for that too- even if it's coming across a bit aggressive and cruel.

Has he ever said how he felt growing up when his dad did this?

That's the thing with abusive men, though - they are nice quite a lot of the time. And a woman who is in a relationship with an abusive misogynist often thinks, for quite a long time, that the 'nice' man is who her partner really is, when in fact the abusive misogynist is who he really is. And, if you've been with the abuser for a long time, it is harder to untangle your lives, and after all he's not that bad, and maybe if you could just be more obedient, more compliant, more grateful, then he would stop being horrible to you. But he won't, because, fundamentally, he doesn't consider you a person. Either he sees the relationship as a war he has to win. therefore you have to be made to surrender by any means necessary, or he just doesn't think women are human. A lot of misogynistic abusers 'love' their partners in the way they might love their dog - you feed it, keep it safe, play with it, genuinely care about its wellbeing... but you don't let it get on the sofa; it doesn't get to choose when it's fed or taken for a walk, and the bottom line is it's 'only' a dog and needs to know its place.

I'm not going to criticise you OP, but what i will say is that in my home it would go like this...
Me. What's the matter?
Him. Nothing.
Me really?
Him. You know what the matter is / what you've done....
Me. No idea, anyway i'm going out, see you later, bye.

And out i would go.

This would be repeated until he learnt to be an adult.

Fortunately i'm not married to a sulker / mardy arse / idiot.

He could equally have come on and said my wife doesn't see all the things that need doing. And that would be his side. I don't think that would be his side at all. I think that's a made-up excuse for taking out his stress and frustration on you.

ReanimatedSGB
But that's exactly what I mean. That's not our relationship. And I'm sure lots are like that and horrendous to be in, but I'm not loved liked a dog. I'm loved like an equal. Im in charge of most major life decisions because I can be pretty decisive. And he can be a pain in not deciding too but will go with what i choose.
He just doesn't know how to deal with anger- so sulks.
He doesn't like his dad sulking. And pointing out he's acting like his dad does pull him up a bit.

I am going to control my anger- not for him, for me. I won't let myself lose control or feel helpless if he sulks. I will walk away from it- like I would with DD (although thankfully she doesn't sulk!) I will point out the effect it could have on the kids (he doesnt like that because he knows its true) and i will say that I'm prepared to listen when he has something to say
Picking through the people who say he's misogynist/abusing me to those who say he's being a dick... I think your advice will be useful to anyone who is being abused. I'm sorry you've had those experiences. I don't recognise the abusers in my DH. Nothing you say they do is what he does. He's just being a dick sometimes. And I need to learn how to not react to that/to not encourage it.
He has more to learn but I'm not going to spend lots of time teaching him unless he's not being dickish.

And thanks - I understand the advice is coming from a good place.

He could equally have come on and said my wife doesn't see all the things that need doing. And that would be his side.

Also, if he did come here and say this - he'd get his arse handed to him. 'Why does she have to see everything? Do you not have eyes to see and a mouth to speak? Why can't you collaborate?' And 'Is she your Mum and are you under-5?'... and worse.

Sorry to bang on about this but it's just such a striking line - the idea that you not being omniscient and in charge of absolutely everything in the household, is a major character flaw and a reasonable cause for complaint.

When women make related complaints on here, their complaint is 'he doesn't see anything that needs doing, he doesn't see dirt or mess, or anticipate running out of things. I need to point out every single little tiny job - and then ask him nicely or he huffs.'

So, the opposite of what you think your husband is upset about. Can you imagine how he'd cope, living with one of those 'can't see anything that needs doing people?

How odd that it's always the women - the women who do everything, the woman (you) who does nearly everything - who are always tiptoeing around, worrying about 'being nice'.

Btw, when your H sulks off, does he simultaneously dash around in a stressy frenzy getting all those ever so urgent things done? Or did they turn out not to be so important ever to exist after all?

It always ends with me shouting and begging to be told what I've done wrong and him staying calm and cold and saying I know already. And then denying he got annoyed at the original thing. ^

Howdid
You wrote the line above, read it & re read it & then tell me again you are not still a silly mare, in denial that you are with an emotional abuser 🤷‍♀️

You are so ensconced in the situation that even when you scream it out loud, you can't hear yourself scream 😢

This IS NOT what a healthy relationship looks like - begging someone to tell you what you have done wrong is an awful, unnatural way to live & is not a loving relationship

I'm sorry, OP. But gaslighting is never unintentional.

You want to communicate and stop this cycle. Counselling would be the way forward. If he wont go then go yourself. You cant make him change his behaviour but you can change your reaction to it

Yes it is possible that he has not learned any other ways of dealing with conflicts than sulking. If his dad always did it, it's likely he will copy, whether he agreed with it or not.

But the part about 'you should know what you did!!' is a different matter. What's his explanation behind this? WHY won't he tell you what's bothering him (if it's not to punish you and make you look like the unreasonable one)?
Surely, if you have really done something that upset him, it would make sense to discuss it like adults?

I lived this for 15 years, it does not get better, it gets worse. He's an arsehole. Leave now.

So you're supposed to be all knowing & psychic as to what he's got on and if you don't it's your fault or you're mad. That's emotional abuse & control. I'd take back control & change what's currently an unhealthy dynamic. I'd say let's discuss our weekend plans each Fri night over a glass of wine: then you're throwing it back to him to communicate like an adult. And you're being an adult by communicating & initiating a solution.

You just have to stay calm and not rise to the bait OP. If he says ‘you should know’ just say ‘I don’t, that’s why I’m asking.’ Don’t react and stay very calm.

You say you’ve given him a notepad and pen- leave it at that. Don’t chase him up, stay cheerful and carry on as normal. If he gives you the list, great. If he doesn’t, don’t mention that he hasn’t.

You say your FIL sulks and MIL ignores- you have to ignore too. If you ignore it, he can’t bring it up again without expanding on why he’s upset, which is what you asked him to do in the first place. Win win.

Stay easy breasy OP. He goes low, you go high!

You must be exhausted.

Blaming you for stuff then refusing to tell you what the stuff is, completely bonkers. Then you shout.

Could you get counseling for yourself? Even if you approach it as you want to change your approach so that you don’t end up upset & shouting?

. I want him to stop acting that way"

But he won't
unless he wants to

Try changing your response
Walk away don't beg

Sorry OP - he's a total cock. I certainly wouldn't stand for that shit. My DP can be a little like that at times and when he is, he's told to fuck the fuckity fuck off.

I want to sort this. I want him to stop acting that way (and I'm pretty sure he would rather I not shout at him!) And I wanted advice on how to approach that. And to check i wasn't being unreasonable to expect him to stop. I can see I'm not unreasonable

Well that’s the problem. Most people posting on MN Relationship are trying to get their DP/DH to stop doing something because they want to fix him.

And sadly that’s impossible. No one here can tell you how to change someone else. It’s hard enough to change yourself when you really REALLY want to and you are prepared to work hard at it and you have support.

You can’t change someone else when they don’t want to change AND they are getting a benefit from their current behaviour. All these sulking men who have trained their wives not to raise difficult issues and these lazy men who can’t see housework or hear children - why WOULD THEY CHANGE???

I understand it’s frustrating, when you come here asking MN for the special words / spell that will make your husband change. But we don’t have one. All we can discuss is how YOU can change your behaviour. So posters get angry because we are not “ answering their question”.

If I had the secret to turning poor communicators into good ones or lazy, selfish men into kind and considerate ones, I wouldn't be here pissing about on MN - I’d be a Multi millionaire.

As someone who was in an abusive relationship for 7 years I can say yes he us gaslighting,it is when a partner makes everything our fault,they never think they are wrong and always turn everything into the partner. It is psychologically abusive and the perpetrators are usual suffering from narcissist personality disorder or anti social personality disorder. I'd advise getting in contact with woman's aid so you have support. Whatever you do don't blame yourself that's what they want,sulking is part of the abuse to make you feel guilty when you've done nothing wrong. I left my husband after 7 years of psychological abuse with our son. Leaving an abusive partner is very difficult especially when there is no violence many believe that only violent relationships are abusive but being psychologically abused is just as frightening and can escalate. I told myself my son wasn't affected but he was his confidence was very low when we left it's taken two years for us both to increase our low self esteem all my son heard was my ex putting me down,criticising me,he took It on himself and blamed himself. We have both had therapy and he is now a loving confident little boy. Leaving is very difficult but staying is just as hard. Your not alone there is so much support out there. You are in my prayers xxx

Totally against the grain here I think he did tell you what was wrong. There was too much to do. He’s feeling harassed and stressed not about anything in particular just about having to drive to swimming and home for a cake then out to his in-laws. It doesn’t sound much which is why he couldn’t really say when you told him to write a list but sometimes we all need a bit of down time. I know I’ve had times of total overwhelm from work stress and home and family busyness and just overload.

Next time he says he feels “there’s just so much to do” why not try sympathising instead of asking him to write a list and basically telling him his feelings are wrong?
Maybe he just needs a bit of “yes darling I know let’s have a quiet weekend next week”.

I understand it’s frustrating, when you come here asking MN for the special words / spell that will make your husband change. But we don’t have one. All we can discuss is how YOU can change your behaviour. So posters get angry because we are not “ answering their question”.

YY.