Is he unintentionally gaslighting me?

[Howdidido]

Me and DH (and he is really D) seem to have these arguments where I say something which i think is inoffensive and he takes great offense at but it seems to be for something else and then tells me he's not angry, I'm just acting crazy
E.g. this morning he said he wanted to go straight to my parents from swimming with DD. I said we'd have to come back first as I've made a cake for Ddad and it couldn't stay in the car. He seemed really pissed off. Then said he has so many things to do this morning..When I asked what they were so I could help he got annoyed (not shouting just irritated) that I didn't know what those things were and that I never was aware of what needed doing. I said I am, I'm just not aware of what's bothering him this morning so to please tell me so I could help with it.
He sulked off out of the room and refused to engage.
When he sulks off I get upset. I get confused as to what I've done wrong and tell him that I don't know but that seems to piss him off more.
It always ends with me shouting and begging to be told what I've done wrong and him staying calm and cold and saying I know already. And then denying he got annoyed at the original thing.
I want this to work. We've got DD and another on the way. I don't want him to be stressed and I want to help but he seems to think I should know what these things are and just get them sorted.
And I do, I do lots. I think I do anyway.

Its not unintentional
He's abusive

It's not unintentional sadly, he is allowing you to get wound up while he calms down and acts cold.

Ignore the sulking child behaviour, don't beg him to interact, you probably havent done anything wrong.

This is worrying behaviour if you're pregnant so be careful when you're more vulnerable...

I don’t think this is intentional or conscious behaviour on his part but there is no doubt in my mind it is controlling behaviour.

By withdrawing in this way he gets your attention. It’s negative attention in the form of anger and shouting and yelling but (as anyone who has raised a toddler knows) sometimes negative attention is better than no attention at all. It’s all emotional energy and reassures the husband/toddler that they are important in your life.

You did the right thing in resisting the shouting and yelling today. Next time I would take it one step further and say ‘I can see you are annoyed about something. If you want to talk about it I’ll be ready to listen’ and then carry on as normal. If the withdrawing fails to get your attention he will need to change his behaviour. It might not be immediate but eventually the penny will drop.

And don’t try and ‘fix ‘ things for him. You are his wife and life partner, not his mummy. Let him take some responsibility for his own happiness and behaviour choices.

Yeah he sounds like a good man......

A practical suggestion is that you could be pro-active by creating a 'to do list' for the day and asking him to add to it or discuss with you. Or make a habit of 'planning the day' together over breakfast.

He's an abusive shit. This behaviour is deliberate and it's all about putting you in your place and 'training' you to worship him like a deity, be constantly trying to appease and placate him, and never asking for anything.
You could try laughing at him when he has one of his tanties, reacting like you would to a naughty toddler. But if doing that makes him become aggressive, then you will need to get rid of him, because it will get worse.

He doesn't control anything else- money, time or not telling me what he's up to..He doesn't put all responsibility on me for childcare. We do properly 50/50. Maybe even he does slightly more. He does much around the house.
His mum isn't beaten down. She just ignores the sulking- as do we all for FIL.
Honestly apart from this I'm happy with how things generally are. It's just the reaction to things that bother us
I think we do need counselling
I think I need to not blow up
I know he needs to stop sulking- but that's not under my control. All I can do is amend how I react. Maybe he's doing it because he wants me to blow up and him feel in the right. Maybe not. But all I can do is control myself and not allow it to bother me

I could have written this a couple of years ago.

All I can advise, as others have, is to get yourself to counselling and then you will at least see for yourself whether changing your way of dealing with him makes any difference.

I did this, spent 2 years in counselling analysing H's behaviour, changing my reactions to it, detaching, looking at things from his point of view.

In the end, nothing changed with him and I realised (with heart-wrenching grief) that I had to get out.

I realise you are not ready to leave now because of this, but please get some counselling for yourself and give him an ultimatum about marriage counselling for the two of year - if he's not a talker the counsellor will deal with that, you can't do it alone, nothing you've tried so far has worked.

Good luck.

It is gaslighting if he has an agenda, and it appears that he enjoys you becoming angry and upset, while he remains cold and detached. That's very controlling behaviour and typical gaslighting to me. If he is making you behave in a way you dont want then it's gaslighting

He's an abusive, gaslighting, controlling wanker and you're too 'in love' or desperate to see it.

It always ends with me shouting and begging to be told what I've done wrong and him staying calm and cold and saying I know already. And then denying he got annoyed at the original thing
Ah yes, he's punishing you for something you've ALLEGEDLY done but won't tell you what so you can't confidently stand up for or defend yourself, instead he's going to keep on ABUSING you.
This IS controlling behaviour.

We do properly 50/50. Maybe even he does slightly more. He does much around the house
Yea? So then why does he constantly accuse you of not being aware of what needed doing?
He's trying to make you doubt yourself and it's working.
Are you even 100% sure that he does 'slightly more'?

I make lists so things don't get forgotten and so it's not stressing out my head. I don't know why he won't
Probably because that's an adult, mature way of handling issues regards the division of labour and it actually resolves issues.
He doesn't WANT to resolve the issues he's accusing you if being responsible for.
He doesn't WANT you to be able to say "i have proof that i have tried to help sort this out".
He WANTS you to remain confused and constantly on the backfoot and treading on eggshells.
Plus the list will probably show that he DOESN'T do 50/50 let alone 'slightly more'.
If it turns out that you do both share chores equally, then it shows that he is being unreasonable and using abusive behavior to punish you for him having to pull his weight.
He's manipulating you into taking on the mental AND work load - you figure out what needs doing by BOTH of you, you split it (so then he can use that as an excuse for finding a problem), then you end up doing it because he's busy sulking and non communicating.
I think I need to not blow up
So it's your fault then eh?
He is regularly putting you in this position and pushing your buttons, it is completely NATURAL to explode with emotion.
So now you think that your reaction is the problem instead of it being 100% HIS behaviour and lack of honest communication.
See how the gaslighting works?
The script says that you will now start changing your behaviour, suppressing your emotions and feelings in order to pacify/placate him.
So you won't ever get an explanation/proof of the accusations and he won't ever take any personal responsibility for his actions/words either.

He's training you to take the abuse and believe that it's your own fault he's like that with you.
A man can be 99% wonderful, but that 1% that isn't can be the most important factor in a relationship.
That 1% is what gets women stuck in cycles of abuse and oftentimes killed.

It always ends with me shouting and begging to be told what I've done wrong and him staying calm and cold and saying I know already

This, with sulking? A bloody grown adult sulking? Yuck.

You sound like you've got your head screwed on OP, but make sure you're not burying it (even a bit) at the same time.

He is showing you he has the power. & you are trying to appease, you need to because you want to keep the family group whole.
He will continue to do this on a larger & larger scale.
It is deliberate, Its how your life will continue.
Either you stop it now, or you are in for a lot of unhappiness
Whether you are able to show him this is not acceptable, & you will NOT be put on the back foot over something you have not created & are not resposable for is unlikely essentiel, failing this, you should get out fast.

His behaviour towards you doesnt sound at all nice, particularly the very nasty line about you knowing what you've done wrong so he's not going to tell you.
Its easy as an outsider to comment on this and I apologise in advance but I think he's got you seeing yourself as a wrong doer and the person who has to work hard to fix things. He's the one creating the problem. He should be co-operating with you, not expecting you to be a mind reader.
Your comments about MIL are troubling too.. you say she has calmed down and just ignores it all now.. ie.. she accepts the behaviour and has changed her very normal reactions to cope with it all, but that means the nasty behaviour is still continuing.. so ignoring it hasn't helped either.
I don't think its you that needs fixing. Sorry OP x

You have asked, you have many pointing out how nasty his behaviour is.

Either you accept it for what others are seeing or you don't, but don't accuse them of projecting.

I wonder why you asked if this is what you want to do?

Pp are trying to help you out here, because of the effects of his nasty behaviour.

What he's doing is very controlling, whether you see that or not.

How does one have a relationship with one who 'doesn t talk'

Or is that his way of shutting you down? It certainly is the tactic of a controller.

To have a partnership you do indeed need to commit to 'talking'. If you don't talk what actual 'relationship' is there.

He doesn't need to get physical for it to be abuse, or abuse you in every area of your life.

But he is emotionally and psychologically controlling you through his behaviour.

This us emotional abuse.

Honest.

I've been there

Please don't just stick with it for the sake of the kids, he ain't never gonna change.

The kids deserve decent behaviour to look up too, not intentional gaslighting abusive bullshit. I swear it IS intentional .

You deserve better too.

Projecting? Fucking hell.

It sounds as if he just gets grumpy ...and then makes up a reason or strings you along making you feel responsible.

You have control here - if you can step back from his mood. Stop thinking there is a reason and that he is witholding it. Always start with the thought that there is no reasonable matter to be addressed by you.

This should be the default position when he sulks. Just wait it out. Don't engage. You are not at fault - why would you be?

If it helps you - treat his moods like toddler tantrums. (Just imagine all the things that might be upsetting him: he might be getting furious because his socks are blue or because he can't have a pet elephant. Assume one of these whenever he looks balefully at you. It helps.)

Decide if you want to stay around long enough for him to grow out of this :) or find a way to accept this flaw.

He's a twat you deserve much better than this manipulative control freak. LTB

He goads you, manipulates you, calls you crazy, and sulks to get you to do what he wants, but he's not nasty or controlling and we are all just projecting?

Okay then.

Would you be cool with somebody putting cyanide in your tea as long as it was only a little bit of cyanide in a beautiful teacup?

If you didn't realise this behaviour was deliberately controlling and were trying to convince yourself it was possible to "unintentionally" gaslight somebody (it's not), I am not sure you have the perspective or distance to identify any other controlling behaviour.

If you want to focus on what you can control about your own behaviour, stop blaming yourself for other people's actions. He is freely choosing to continue behaving like this despite the distress it causes you. That's on him, not you.

Just to offer a different perspective, I'm the one in our house who knows everything rust needs to be done, and DH seems oblivious so will say oh I'm going to take DS into town and get a coffee, oh ok then we've just got a million things that need doing and you're out tomorrow but fine. It pisses me off to keep having to tell him what needs to be done when to me it's apparent and often we have spoken about it. He then says he doesn't know why I'm annoyed and I don't always feel like repeating myself. Or we'll be out doing something and I'll say while we're out we can do xyz and then go to A like we planned to get everything done and he says oh I just need to pop home because I forgot exactly what's needed for y. It's infuriating and takes forever to get anything done and I end up feeling like I have no time to relax

Sounds a little bit like my DP. I used to pander to his moods. I think out of fear he would leave. Then I started to just leave him to it. Couldn't be bothered with it. I just let him sulk, sometimes for days, never knowing what I did wrong and frankly didn't care. I just went about my life.

His DF said something to me that stuck.. He said that my DP has a low verbal iq. He knows what he wants and what he means in his head, he just can't get the right words out and that frustrates him.

Years later he still cracks it but not as much because I don't react.

Oh and DH says to make him a list, but why should I I'm not the only adult in our relationship

It doesn't sound good. To be honest my dh does something a bit like this. He gets cross, says he is not cross, eventually admits he was cross etc. It's very fucking annoying but after 20 years I am used to it.

I think you need a serious chat, face to face.

Maybe you may wish to see a counselor. He should get his own counselling and yes, I know he is not keen, i she keen that he is going to drive you away and one day he will be attempting to maintain two homes and see if his kids every other weekend?

What he is doing is unnecessary. He could just tell you what he has on to do.

"I tell him to make a list. That's what I do with things that need doing. But he says I should make the list.
I make lists so things don't get forgotten and so it's not stressing out my head. I don't know why he won't
I am exhausted."

Perhaps you could offer to do the list together? It sounds like he is getting something out of this behvour, what is it. Does watching you get angry while he gets colder and calmer give him a feeling of supperiority?

Is work shit for him and he likes to run things at home to make up for it.

You could try pointing out to him (when he's not sulking) that he's indulging in learned behaviour, it's what he saw his father doing all his life, and it's fucked up his parents' marriage. If the behaviour is learned it can be unlearned.

You've given him pen and paper to write down what's bothering him? FFS you are adults with a child and a baby on the way. Do you really have time to indulge this pathetic excuse for a man. This thread is so frustrating to read. If you were a friend I'd just want to shake some sense into you.

Projecting

FFS wake up & smell the coffee you silly mare