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AIBU?

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Original poster

To say FIL doesn't own a third of our house?

159 replies

winnie765 · 13/07/2019 10:47

We bought out first house earlier this year with a 30% deposit of approx £100k. Of this, FIL gifted dh &30k. He declared it was a gift in the paperwork during the process and his name is not on the deeds.

But he keeps saying things like 'I own a third of this house' and if it was sold in the future it would need to be divided three ways. He's even talking about getting us to sign something so he will get his money if we decide to sell and move.

AIBU to think this isn't quite right?

OP posts:
C8H10N4O2 · 13/07/2019 13:45

Did he?

OP states that he told them it was a gift and this was covered in the paperwork. If it wasn't a gift he lied.

Butchyrestingface · 13/07/2019 13:46

OP states that he told them it was a gift and this was covered in the paperwork. If it wasn't a gift he lied

His son may have been party to any lie. OP hasn’t returned to clarify, has she?

C8H10N4O2 · 13/07/2019 13:48

OP hasn’t returned to clarify, has she?

TBH, I was wondering if it was a reverse Grin

Knittedjimmychoos · 13/07/2019 13:51

Mokoto I cannot understand how that's legally possible to suddenly declare it a gift and it comes out of your share of equity??

dontgobaconmyheart · 13/07/2019 14:00

Legally, OP, it depends what he signed and the wording of that re: any potential return on his 'gift' plus any appreciation of the asset. When you day he put it in writing; do you mean he signed a declaration of trust or deed of gift prior to you arranging a mortgage? via a solicitor and this paperwork was filed? Unless he can demonstrate he was misled or not of sound mind then that would be legally binding. Most lenders require this if the deposit is provided by a parent before they will agree to a mortgage for the reason that the issue you're having, is so common.

I would be discussing with my DP what conversations he had with his DF that lead him to believe this is the case, but would confirm with him he is not named on the deeds and has no ownership claim to a % of the property at all, let alone a third.

With regards to his claim to the 30k legally if he has signed it away he won't get it back unless you/DP choose to 'gift' it back to him. Or in the unlikely event he contested the validity of it on the grounds I mentioned above. If it is to become a loan I would be very careful with regards to what may count as money laundering, if it was declared as gift to secure a mortgage, and is in fact, a loan.

Passthecherrycoke · 13/07/2019 14:02

Thing I wonder about this is you know you sign all the gift paperwork and all is clear, what happens 2 / 5 years later when you remortgage with a different lender and that paperwork is rendered useless? Does that mean there is even less claim than before (not that there was any) or Make it ambiguous?

Mythreefavouritethings · 13/07/2019 14:06

If this was his plan, he should have made this explicit from the start. This isn’t about decency, he has completely changed the goalposts. He signed to confirm this was a gift. Yes, it’s a very generous one, but you can’t suddenly throw in a claim on the house, that’s not fair. This is why we sign the T & Cs as that is the time to consider these things.

CruellaFeinberg · 13/07/2019 14:13

@DexyMidnight
CruellaFeinberg do you think it's OK to take the attitude 'oh my parents have agreed to be unsecured creditors and give me a leg up lol I'll just shaft them'?

If OP's FIL swore blind it was a gift and he'd never lay claim to the house I still think he's allowed to regret his generosity and panic and I still think OP should grit her teeth ans say 'ok FIL that's a surprise but let's set up a payment plan or get you security for your share of the deposit'.

This isn't a bank FFS this is an old(er) man who had suddenly realised he has made a mistake.

Really? where are you getting this from?

From the OP Of this, FIL gifted dh &30k. He declared it was a gift in the paperwork during the process and his name is not on the deeds.

Who makes a thirty grand mistake ? Who gifts money and then attaches strings after the money has been spent??

AcrossthePond55 · 13/07/2019 14:24

Legally, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

My parents 'gifted' us the downpayment for our 1st home on paper, as required by the bank. However, between us and my parents it was a 'verbal' no-interest loan and they fully expected to be repaid. Which they were, in full, shortly after the purchase closed. Legally, I suppose, we could have 'stiffed' them, but we would never have done that.

I think you need to speak to your DH and be very sure that he and his father didn't have some type of verbal agreement of which you are unaware. If so, then you need to arrange to repay the money rather than give him an interest in your house. If not, then he can sod off. Show him the papers he signed. But do prepare for the fallout.

DexyMidnight · 13/07/2019 14:28

OP keep the 30k and tell him to do one if you want but it's a scummy scummy thing to do and it'll come back to bite you. Karma always does

DexyMidnight · 13/07/2019 14:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Motoko · 13/07/2019 14:32

Knittedjimmychoos No, you've got it the wrong way round. When we bought the house, his nan told us it was a gift, she didn't want it paid back, but when we sold the house, after splitting up, my ex told the solicitors it was a loan.

This was back in 1999, and I don't know if the rule that gifts had to be declared and signed for, were in place then. I don't remember his nan signing anything at the time, so perhaps it wasn't, which meant that ex could tell the solicitor that it was an informal family loan, (therefore, no paperwork) and so that had to be paid for, before our 50/50 split of the equity. As his nan had died, it was supposedly going to be passed on to ex MIL, but I suspect he was allowed to keep it.

Rezie · 13/07/2019 14:38

Truthfully, I'd probably try to negotiate a loan from the bank or something to give him back the £30k just to shut them up. It would probably feel so good. I know it might not be possible.

I don't know about legalities. Common sense says that he has no leg to stand on. Also he is being an ass.

ChicCroissant · 13/07/2019 14:48

OP, a few people have commented on the fact that you haven't said what your partner's response has been to this at all. What has your partner said about their father's claims?

Kulfold · 13/07/2019 14:55

I am concerned by the number of people opining on this who are clearly not lawyers, its actually quite a complex area and some of the statements made are clearly wrong so....1) if you’re fil is making these assertions take legal advice now and give your advisor all the details so you can get proper advice on your specific situation but also generally...2) just because someones name is not on the deeds of a house that does not mean they cannot assert “beneficial” ownership of a part or all of the property..3) the written deed of gift is really important...all the people suggesting you should have ANY discussion with your fil suggesting that that deed is a fiction are giving you very poor advice legally (the morality of the situation and any agreement your dh may have made implicitly or otherwise is well outside of anything I am touching) because...if you accept that the deed of gift is a fiction then you open up the obvious question of whether the 30,000 is a loan or some form of equitable contribution...it becomes your word against his without the protection of that written document. (Even with it in some circumstances but it would be harder for him to assert) and to add insult to injury once you start questioning ownership you potentially also move into the vexed area of marital home rights notices (and here family practitioners should feel free to jump in because this isn’t my area) where there are issues with getting a notice if there is a non resident 3rd party part owner...in summary, in the situation you are currently in talk to a lawyer first before having any discussion with your fil and certainly before considering signing anything and next time before you get into this type of situation make sure everyone understands what they intend and write it all down...ideally with the involvement of a lawyer (although in fairness it does sound like you have made reasonable efforts in that direction)

CruellaFeinberg · 13/07/2019 14:58

@DexyMidnight Cruella I've saud this twice now, I've no idea if FIL swore blind it was a genuine gift or whether he didn't fully appreciate what he was doing (OP hasn't clarified so I do wonder if it's the latter) but either way he regrets it now and is panicking.

And I have said to you too, we don't know what has happened - for all we know FIL insisted they take the money, and the OP upgraded the house they planned to buy because they had more money for the deposit. Or possibly the FIL had an idea that he could tell them it was a gift and then he would own a third of the house, afterall no one would possibly think otherwise. Or even the FIL thought he could afford it at the time, but after some sums realises he needs it to retire or.... or.... or.... so many many different possibilities and without more information who can say?

However, you decided on the brief information given that the OP is gross and trying to rip off a poor hard done by elderly relative??

he regrets it now and is panicking. or it was his master plan all along?

notangelinajolie · 13/07/2019 15:01

He has no rights to the money or the house. But you need to have a conversation with him about how you are going to repay him. Because morally you should.
His kindness has enabled you to get on the housing ladder. Are you seriously going to shrug and say tough?

gingerbiscuits · 13/07/2019 15:02

Your FIL is an idiot! His maths doesn't add up for a start (30% of 30% is not a third!) & he hasn't paid any of the mortgage! The only thing he MIGHT be able to claim is his 30k back again if you sold the house but if he stated on the paperwork that this was a gift & not a loan, then I doubt he'd be owed even that. Address it now & be VERY clear.

gingerbiscuits · 13/07/2019 15:04

Having said that, I would def try to pay his 30k back as soon as humanly possible & then you're square.

DontJudgeMePlease · 13/07/2019 15:07

At best he ‘owns’ 9% of the house

If he’s quoted 1/3 he’s clearly not all that bright

But as others have said, you need to take it seriously that he was expecting his money back and talk to your DP

Family members are declaring via solicitors as a ‘gift’ to aid successful mortgage applications all the time without actually meaning it’s a gift

DexyMidnight · 13/07/2019 15:07

Ok ok Cruella we'll go with your script, it doesn't tie in with what we've been told by the OP and seems implausible but it's more salacious to assume FIL is an evil mastermind.

I didn't say the OP was gross btw, you did. I said the people saying 'you have the paperwork, stiff him!' were gross. Appalling attitude when as far as we know the FIL might be a perfectly normal decent father

Thelittleweasel · 13/07/2019 15:09

The house is owned by whomever is on the Land Registry papers. Your FIL could - if he wanted to be tedious - make an application to a court but there is a presumption in law that financial transactions in families do not create a contract

CruellaFeinberg · 13/07/2019 15:10

@DexyMidnight
Ok ok Cruella we'll go with your script, it doesn't tie in with what we've been told by the OP and seems implausible but it's more salacious to assume FIL is an evil mastermind.

I don't have a script - that's the point - non of us know

I didn't say the OP was gross btw, you did. I said the people saying 'you have the paperwork, stiff him!' were gross. Appalling attitude when as far as we know the FIL might be a perfectly normal decent father Ok - I apologise that you said that about other people and not the OP - not sure where I said the OP was gross though (apologies to the OP if I did)

yayayayaya · 13/07/2019 15:12

If he’s signed the paperwork to say it’s a gift he doesn’t have a leg to stand on. What a vile man. Yes it was kind to gift the deposit but how awful to constantly throw it back in your face.

Mine offered us ours and I said ‘thanks we’ll pay it back’ and they refused.

DexyMidnight · 13/07/2019 15:13

Ok night I'm out. OP do the right thing please, if you're still reading! Xx

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