To say FIL doesn't own a third of our house?

[winnie765]

We bought out first house earlier this year with a 30% deposit of approx £100k. Of this, FIL gifted dh &30k. He declared it was a gift in the paperwork during the process and his name is not on the deeds.

But he keeps saying things like 'I own a third of this house' and if it was sold in the future it would need to be divided three ways. He's even talking about getting us to sign something so he will get his money if we decide to sell and move.

AIBU to think this isn't quite right?

If he is going to try and demand 1/3 of a future sale, presumably more than his £30K then he will have a tax implication on the capital gain. As he is not on the deeds, he signed, presumably for the building society, to say it was a gift then he doesn't have a leg to stand on.The reason that lenders require such a statement regarding the deposit is to avoid exactly this situation.

Wow @Untamedtoad....you're a peach.

Using someone else's money to make a profit & even if they had asked for a % of the tax free gain you made (with their help) you would have told them to do one.

He can’t demand a third of a future sale, unless I’ve read the OP incorrectly, he contributed 30% of the deposit (100k) for a house which was 300k.
So that would make 10%?
Remortgage at the next opportunity and give him his money back if he is going to keep being a twat about it!

My parents loaned me money for my house, my lawyer wrote up a Declaration of trust at the time detailing this transaction, the repayment arrangement and a note put on the deeds that any outstanding loan had to be paid back to them before I received any money should I sell up. Your FIL is being a CF.

The paperwork all shows a gift and legally he has no claim on your house.

But what conversations were had, especially the ones with your dh that you were maybe not privy to, around the £30k when he gave it? Was it a loan to be repaid, or on the understanding if the house was sold he would have a share (not 1/3). There must be some reason he believes this?

Your dh needs to have a frank conversation with him so everyone is clear where they stand.

Don't be ridiculous @hadthesnip2.

Untamed makes a very fair and reasonable point. It is not on to give money as a gift and then declare it's yours after doing so.

The relatives were bang out of order to suddenly decide it was an investment. Really sneaky!

It is a gift but chances ate then he realised he couldn't afford it or in the future might need it or something. I'd probably go along the lines of the people trying to pay it back to him because I'd feel sorry that someone feels the need to do that!!

He's signed a legal document to say he gifted the money and isn't on your deeds, therefore he hasn't got a leg to stand on. I assume you did this through your solicitor, we had to prove where our deposit had come from when we were buying.

He doesn't own 1/3 of your house, his maths are somewhat off, the house is worth over 300k and he gifted 30k that's less than 10% anyway!!! Is he paying his 3rd of the mortgage, any upkeep, insurances, refurbishments?

I do know 3 brothers and their dad gave them all X amount of deposit for a % of their houses, it's all legally binding though not him just saying it in passing.

He doesn't own any part of the house, especially if you have the paperwork to prove it. I wouldn't be giving him any of the money back now or when you sell. What does your DH think? He needs to deal with this.

A 30% deposit of £100,00 implies a house price of about £330,000, in which case his £30.000 is less than 10%! A gift has no strings, ask Jundge Judy, he cannot legally demand it back now or in the future. If your OH is not an only child then siblings may be stirring things.

We would. when/if our daughter moves put a substantial amount towards the cost as a gift but I would expect to be able to in some way ring fence the money so that in the unlikely event of a split it isn't just split equally.

Your FIL is not very good at maths! He gave you 10% of the deposit, not 10% of the house price.

If it was a gift, he does not own a single brick of your house.

What did he verbally tell your partner (ignore what's on the deeds or not) if he told your partner he would lend the money but it was tricky to declare it on the deeds it's very different to him offering a gift and backtracking

In Scotland the £30k would likely to be deducted from your DH inheritance
I would pay it back ASAP

@hadthesnip2 ..... Where did I say I'd tell them to do one? I said I'd offer to pay the ORIGNAL amount back at a very small amount a month. After the mortgage and bills are paid, there is only a small amount left over. At the end of the day, you don't offer someone a gift, and then afterwards say you want it back. That's not how it works. It's like buying an expensive handbag/coffee machine etc, as a gift, then once they've used it, telling them they need to pay you for it. Would you do that? No. This is no different, just on a larger scale. If the money was made clear it was a loan from the start, there wouldn't be an issue would there? Everyone would know where they stand. This is what happens when controlling people have spare money.... they "gift" it to others to make themselves look good, but actually can't bear to have no terms and conditions attached, no strings to pull, or no control over what the recepient does long term. It's all about control, so in this situation I'd enforce my own "rules" to say I'd repay x amount a month to eventually recover the ORIGINAL sum, no more, while making it clear that legally, I have no obligation to repay the GIFT, and this is a kind will gesture on my part. If the "lender" wanted to use their money as an investment, there's plenty of opportunity to do that elsewhere, instead of trying to fuck with family members chances of success in the property market, by dangling a golden carrot wrapped as a gift, but with (invisible) small print attatched. It's just cruel, controlling, and underhand. And they get to look like the good guys for "helping out" a struggling relative, while actually staking a claim in someone else's lives. When my children are grown, I will help them out in every way possible to buy their own homes, and would never put terms and conditions on the money I GIFT to them, especially in an underhand way, where they aren't given the facts upfront. It's just cruel.

Lovely fil, when do you intend to start paying a third of the mortgage and other home related expenses, and of course any back payment.

He either gave ye a gift or he didn't OP.

Is there any possibility that it wasn't a gift and your partner never mentioned it?

You never mentioned what your partner's response to this is.

Your partner needs to clear the air.

It's a gift or it's not.

He does not own any part of your house.

But letting him continue to make this claim is ridiculous and will cause further problems if it goes unchallenged.

You could just let him keep repeating it and not respond at all. In one ear out the other.

He might be making a joke in poor taste, my DF loaned is some money when my car blew up at the start of mat leave, we could've taken it out of investments, our liquid savings were to support my drop in earnings over mat leave. DF said no don't do that I've got the cash handy, pay me back when you're back at work, I know I can pay him back in five months without touching longer term investments or leaving us short (it was only £5k) . When other relatives commented on the new car , saying it's nice etc, he said twice 'i bought them that' with a chuckle, the guest time I explained no we were paying him back. The second I just said oh DF that's so lovely of you we were intending on paying you back, but now you've said it's a gift,that's brilliant we didn't take the money out of our investment, and now we're not paying you back we can use that money to go on a really lovely holiday with DC instead! Cue awkward oh erm I was just joking, of course I know you could've used your other savings and that you'll be paying me back quickly. He hasn't said it again

It was a gift.. he can't now claim to own a percentage of your house... (it would never be a third anyway)

In your position, I'd save like mad and give him his 30k back at some point. 'Gifts' like his aren't worth the hassle.

Oh and he can't make you retrospectively give you anything back after the event, especially if he's already signed something to the prove it was a gift - stupid man

Regardless of the paperwork, what was the intention when he handed over the money? Did he say it was a gift and that he expected nothing in return, or did he indicate that it was to get you on the housing ladder and that he anticipated a return at some point? It was a generous act either way. Only you know in your heart what the premise of the arrangement was.
Maybe you should be grateful that his money enabled you to get onto the housing ladder.

I agree that you need to start paying him back.

OP what did you understand the £30k to be - a no stings gift or an informal loan without which you would not have been able to buy the house in question, or at the interest rate you have secured?

If the answer is that you are not sure then you are being as unreasonable as he is, for not having frankly discussed this.

My parents 'gifted' us about £40k for house deposits but i frantically paid it back ASAP and didn't take the piss with holidays or clothes etc while any of the balance was outstanding.

Legally they would have been fecked if I had just shrugged my shoulders and walked away but I'm no snake.

Even if he made out it was a no strings gift you need to pay it back asap or frogmarch him to a solicitor and execute a deed of trust whereby he or his estate recieves the first 30k of any proceeds of sale.

It's not ideal if he's changed his mind but it was awfully generous of him either way so don't be a cunt and 'hold firm'

Have you had a recent falling out with FIL at all?.Sometimes parents can be unusually generous at the time ,and then try and backtrack !.If all set up properly ,and with legal advice he is talking through his hat!.The problem with this kind of thing is that you are somehow beholden to a family member ,and it is difficult to deal with .I would say to DH to have a word with him and try and discuss it in a friendly way .Sadly there is the distinct possibility of a falling out unless handled carefully.If he wont budge then maybe a trip to the Solictors with him may help?.Does he have any change in his financial circumstances do you think?.

Don't sign anything. Try to pay back the money he (didn't) gifted.

My ex's family did something like this.

His nan GIFTED us 10K towards our house, yet when we split up (and she had died before then), I got a letter from the solicitor, telling me that as the money had been a LOAN, my share of the equity, would be minus the 10K!

I couldn't be bothered to fight it, so let it go. The fact that ex's lies were also affecting our son, didn't seem to occur to him.

OP, could your partner have known this was a loan all along, and not told you? Or is he as surprised as you are? You haven't said what he thinks about this. What does he think you both should do, agree with it? Or is he angry?

Please come back and answer some questions.