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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Are state schools beyond help?

284 replies

user1480880826 · 12/07/2019 13:10

I see so many threads on AIBU about state schools. There seem to be issues with teachers (specifically the lack of consistent teachers and number of supply teachers), kids behaviour not being dealt with, lack of resources, cost of having to subsidise underfunded schools etc etc.

Is the state school system really as dysfunctional as it appears on mumsnet? Should I be saving up to send my kid to private schools? You don’t see parents coming on here and complaining about their private school.

For those of you with kids in state schools, would you send your kids to private school if money wasn’t a problem?

OP posts:
joanofbarc · 13/07/2019 08:25

I think schools now are pretty shit if you teach in them giraffe - not too bad if you are a kid!

JacquesHammer · 13/07/2019 08:32

Interestingly, this does not seem to apply to mumsnetters who use private schools. They all seem to live clustered round failing, shit and sink schools

Nope. I live surrounded by some absolutely excellent state schools, we just didn’t get in. But then we’ve had this discussion before and it doesn’t fit with your rhetoric so....

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 13/07/2019 08:38

There were some great primary schools where we lived when the DC were younger. Unfortunately the DC were the wrong faith for them so didn’t stand a chance of getting in. (Selection by faith also was effectively ethnic/cultural/economic selection but that is for another thread)

DippyAvocado · 13/07/2019 08:43

Most state schools are doing a fantastic job in dire financial circumstances. Schools need proper, sustainable funding (it baffles me why this government thinks the education of it's future workforce isn't worth prioritising funding for). Other areas around children and young people that impact in education also need funding - social services, mental health, youth support work, policing etc. Then schools can get on with educating people and not being expected to pick up the slack from funding cuts elsewhere.

noblegiraffe · 13/07/2019 09:02

schools now are pretty shit if you teach in them giraffe - not too bad if you are a kid

Disagree. If you’re a kid with SEN or mental health issues, I think there are massive problems. If you are a kid who wants to do further maths, physics, computer science, languages you’re probably not going to get a relevantly qualified teacher or the course might not even be offered. Schools are cutting back on provision of the arts and tech.

And even if you’re in a good school, because of teachers leaving, you are unlikely to have continuity of quality teaching in all your subjects, even in Y11.

Grasspigeons · 13/07/2019 09:31

I can vouch that living in a leafy suburb has not shielded my child from the funding and recruitment issues at all. Its a long story which ends with him missing all of this academic year 'awaiting specialist provision' as there arent enough specialist provisions available. No education at all for a whole year. There is meant to be 8,500 children not in school awaiting specialist provision.
The story leading up to it is one of large classes or mixed year groups (topping out at 41 for some lessons) a achool unable to recruit a headteacher, a senco on long term sick with stress, supply changing, trainees taking classes. And the thing is, even in that environment my NT child did fine. Its the bulnerable hit hardest

Phineyj · 13/07/2019 11:27

We are also in an area of excellent state schools. Which were all full to bursting when we needed to apply. Some local DC didn't have places by August. A building project was rushed forward by a year. At least two new schools had to operate out of former council office blocks. I preferred the certainty of a private school.place so that (oh the irony) DH and I didn't have to leave our jobs in education. I refuse to be blamed for the government's planning cock ups!

Iggly · 13/07/2019 11:29

Schools need decent funding.

However that’s not going to happen when you’ve got Phillip Hammond (wanker) joking about only giving schools mere pennies when they need billions.

Dick.

myself2020 · 13/07/2019 12:35

@JacquesHammer same for us. 5 primary schools within 1.5 miles. 4 of these good/outstanding. didn’t get in any of them, but in a shithole almost 3 miles away. so we went private- best thing ever!

cantkeepawayforever · 13/07/2019 13:01

Accountability. That's only main difference.

When you pay for anything you have more input and sway.

Teacher very unlikely to talk down to parent who is directly paying their wage. Or fob them off etc.

That is the absolute reverse of my day to day experience (work in a state school to which a decent number of private school pupils transfer each year, for a variety of reasons).

My experience is that private school teachers tell parents what they want to hear, because of the 'you pay me' dynamic. They dodge hard questions about SEN, for example. I have seen private school reports - full written ones sent every term, how lovely - that talk about what a lovely child x is, and make absolutely no mention AT ALL that X is at least 4 years behind in terms of their writing (Y1 level in Y5) and at least 2 years behind in Maths....

BertrandRussell · 13/07/2019 13:03

I do wish people wouldn’t call schools full of tiny children “shitholes”

JacquesHammer · 13/07/2019 13:05

I do wish people wouldn’t call schools full of tiny children “shitholes

Maybe that was in response to your post when you mentioned schools being shit.....

joanofbarc · 13/07/2019 13:07

There has never been a golden age for children with SEN or mental health problems, giraffe.

BertrandRussell · 13/07/2019 13:07

“Maybe that was in response to your post when you mentioned schools being shit.....”

I was quoting. As you well know.

myself2020 · 13/07/2019 13:08

@BertrandRussell but some are. which is a disaster for the kids who can’t escape them. not the kids fault, but they are paying thd bill. a building with a leaky roof, no sports facilities, playground etc IS a shithole. Good teachers won’t stay as there are no ressources. its a downward spiral extremely hard to break

joanofbarc · 13/07/2019 13:09

Good teachers don’t tend to want a brand new shiny school. They want to be supported by management and permitted and trusted to teach well.

JacquesHammer · 13/07/2019 13:10

I was quoting. As you well know

Funny, I can’t see anyone making that point on this thread until you did, but still.

MsMustDoBetter · 13/07/2019 13:12

I definitely think that the state system needs massive investment to build and create and education that is fair and equal across the country regardless of sociology economic backgrounds of its pupils. A system that seeks to support and get the best out of every single child and prepare them for all kinds of employment in adult life.

Reading that beach it sounds like the most basic of requirements and completely out of reach all at the same time!

Snog · 13/07/2019 13:31

Our local state secondary is a fairly bad school but the local sixth is one of the very best in the country as judged by results.

We used private tutors to supplement the teaching in both schools. The teaching in the sixth form was pretty patchy despite it's outstanding results.

I definitely would not have used private schools although I did go to one myself and it would have been affordable. This is because I think the social mix at private schools is too narrow and the academic pressure can be higher.

State schools plus tutors works well for lots of families that I know.

summerofladybird · 13/07/2019 13:31

I think there’s a UN law forbidding a government monopoly on education so I’m not sure how Corbyn and co will get round that - if indeed the UN can enforce it.

The government don't run academies and free schools so it won't be an issue unless they get rid of all of those. I can't see how they would do that to be honest.

Camomila · 13/07/2019 13:42

There's good state schools and bad state schools.

I think the problem with the funding cuts schools are having to rely more on PTAs/parent donations and how much time/money parents will have spare will vary massively.

C8H10N4O2 · 13/07/2019 13:43

It’s because they’re alright, Jack.

Really? I comment on these threads because I tire of the constant state school bashing and the repeated mantra that state schools which are good must by definition be in "leafy suburbs". There are plenty of good state schools which take plenty of PP/FSM children (my kids went to one such - had the highest FSM level in the area, was also a great school).

That doesn't mean I'm not aware of the financial pressures on schools and recruitment which seem set to reach the nadir of the late 80s under Thatcher.

Chovihano · 13/07/2019 13:45

In the present climate, yes, but things change. A government that invests in education could change things almost over night.
So long term probably not, short term definitely.
Home education has almost doubled recently, parents are taking action where they can.

Chovihano · 13/07/2019 13:50

Interestingly, this does not seem to apply to mumsnetters who use private schools. They all seem to live clustered round failing, shit and sink schools

Why is this hard to believe.

myself2020 · 13/07/2019 13:50

@joanofbarc they also don’t want to mop their classrooms before using them, and have to pay for all ressources by themselves (building is in such s bad state, it eats up all school funds). there is s world between “not brand new” and “ready to be demolished “. i’m talking about the second