Are state schools beyond help?

[user1480880826]

I see so many threads on AIBU about state schools. There seem to be issues with teachers (specifically the lack of consistent teachers and number of supply teachers), kids behaviour not being dealt with, lack of resources, cost of having to subsidise underfunded schools etc etc.

Is the state school system really as dysfunctional as it appears on mumsnet? Should I be saving up to send my kid to private schools? You don’t see parents coming on here and complaining about their private school.

For those of you with kids in state schools, would you send your kids to private school if money wasn’t a problem?

State schools arent beyond help - there just needs to be a change in political will, specifically around funding. Something like 75% of schools are going to posting a defecit budget next year. I cant see how a government can plough to an election with 3/4 of schools bankrupt.
Teacher retention is poor and that needs to be addressed.
But at a school level many schools have good behaviour and good results and make a great experience for their students.

Absolutely this! I remember a poster once saying that music lessons were free at their private school.......

🤣🤣 priceless.

The school my dd will be attending 2 of the 3 reception teachers have taught there 20+ years. It's a beautiful school with good results and happy children.

No. And no I would not privately educate if I had the money. There's good and bad in all areas but you are less likely to come on and complain about something you are paying through the nose for than something the state provides for free.
I'm not against private education- just dont see it could provide anything the state schools don't for my children. I think the government cuts are damaging schools however and the fantastic job those teachers in those schools do is a credit to them, against the odds.

It isn't just about the money. It is far more about the attitudes.
Yes I would pay - and did when I could.
People care about the school if they are paying. They don't challenge the teachers in the same way. The kids behave better because their parents value education.
The schools can also refuse to take kids who can't be arsed or who are disruptive. They can refuse to take kids who don't speak the language and whose parents won't learn. They can insist on work being done, longer hours, detentions etc without the same level of resistance. It isn't always all about the money.

I have been in a lot of state schools and I actually think standards in a lot of ways have improved, it is more consistent across the board. Teacher stress on the other hand is something else.

Never would send mine private and out of two very clever girls that I know the one who got full bursary for a selective private did less well in her gcses ( still did really well) than the one that went to at the time one of the poorer performing schools in the borough.

I do think state schools are almost beyond help. They have no support from anyone; not parents, not the government, not the kids, not anyone. It is a real tragedy.

State schools were far worse ten years ago, believe me.

I do think state schools are almost beyond help. They have no support from anyone; not parents, not the government, not the kids, not anyone. It is a real tragedy

Well that doesn't deceive me and and an awful lot of parents and pupils I know. Could you caveat that with some words like "some".

Deceive? Argh autocorrect. I mean describe!

“They have no support from anyone; not parents, not the government, not the kids, not anyone. ”

Blimey. Not just in a bubble but blinkered too!

Having been to - several -pruimary schools in the 1970s ....and had experience of a 'just ex secondary modern' comprehensive school in the 1980s.....the quality of education at modern state schools is brilliant by comparison.

Funding, not so much. Behaviour, actually pretty similar but much terrible behaviour simply wasn't picked up on in my own schooldays whereas now it is much more 'visibly dealt with'. Availability of special schooling - well, that's no longer so good BUT then again, the recognition that not everyone with any kind of 'difference' needs to be removed from mainstream and largely 'hidden away is a Very Good Thing. Respect for schools/ teachers - yes, that is lacking. But then, the level of outright physical and mental bullying dished out by teachers is mercifully lacking too...

It's a complex issue with a range of factors behind it.

I stand by state education and would want my child to attend state schools, but the reality is that I would sooner give up all luxuries and pay private than send my child to some of the schools in my area. I'd probably also give up work and home school.

State schools on the whole aren't beyond help. The problem is the most challenging schools often are in areas where there are lots of social challenges too and with every service being cut back it is the children and families who suffer.

I agree with the point above that you will get more complaints in total about state because 92% or so of the DC attend them.

Money pays for choice. The choice to pick the school that suits best rather than waiting to see what the admissions authority find you. That's it, really.

It does depend on the child of course. If your child has particular e.g. musical, academic or sporting talents they are harder to accommodate in a one size fits all scenario especially when budgets are shrinking.

I see the arguments for state but feel there are worse things to spend money on than education. There are plenty of people spending £££ to get houses in the right location, too!

In brief, don't panic. Go and do your research. You may well be pleasantly surprised.

I'm a primary school governor and have a dd at a state secondary (comprehensive).

It is certainly true that state schools are facing a funding crisis, and this needs to be addressed as a matter of priority. As governors, we have had to set budgets with in-year deficits for the last few years, and we are rapidly eating into our reserves. If we continue at the current rate, our reserves will be gone within three years. There is nothing left that we can realistically cut. I hear that secondary school finances are in an even worse state than primary.

There is also a teacher recruitment crisis. Teachers are leaving the profession in their droves. If the pressures on teachers are not addressed, this will get worse, not better.

Having said all of that, the primary school where I'm a governor is absolutely bloody fantastic. The children are happy, well behaved and excited about learning. The teaching staff are highly committed, hugely talented and very creative. The support staff are top notch. Pastoral care/SEN provision is excellent. The results are outstanding. The learning environment is inspiring. The enrichment opportunities are incredible. Although we have tried to communicate with parents about some of the financial challenges that the school is facing, I don't believe that the parents have the remotest idea how bad things are, because as far as they're concerned, their kids are getting an amazing education. A lot of this comes down to the professionalism and dedication of the school staff, who bend over backwards to ensure that the quality of education/experience for the children doesn't suffer. However, I don't believe that this is sustainable in the longer term because the impact on individual members of staff is too high.

I think the situation is very similar for my dd in secondary school. She has fabulous, hard-working and inspiring teachers for all but one of her subjects. (Sadly, her maths teacher this year is rather poor.) The behaviour at her school is generally fine, and any incidents that do occur are dealt with quickly and effectively. The school celebrates hard work and achievement, and encourages students to explore different options for their futures. There are lots of extra-curricular activities for enrichment and personal development. Overall, DD is happy, thriving and on target to get excellent results in her GCSEs. However, behind the scenes, I'm sure that teachers are under a lot of pressure and I've no doubt that school finances are very tight.

We could comfortably afford to send dd to a private school, but would not do so because she is happy and thriving where she is, and I do not believe that the quality of education is necessarily any better in the private sector, although the resources and facilities might be.

I have just retired after teaching for 28 years in various Hertfordshire schools. Noblegiraffe's post on Page 2 is an excellent summary of the current situation in the state sector. Schools DO put their 'game face' on, and many parents DO want to believe the hype, nobody wants to know that their child is in a sub-optimal situation. I served as a Staff Governor for 10 years, and saw sincere, decent Parent Governors being told barefaced lies by incompetent and cynical SLTs and LA staff. Unless you can accompany your child for a week through their days, I'm afraid you cannot know the half of how much they are being let down. I'm no fan of the private sector, having attended one myself, but if my children were of school-age now I would rather home-ed than send them to a state comprehensive, unless I could afford to send them to a private school.

DC attended decent or good state secondaries.

If Labour get in at the next election - which they well might - they say they will have a big push against independent schools so soon those who can afford it and elect to educate their dc privately will no longer have the choice.
I wonder what will happen - I guess private schools will set up abroad.

Ok I should have said "not enough support" - but there really isn't in my experience. Glad that others disagree.

You do realise that there are state school parents on Mumsnet, don’t you?

State schools arent beyond help - there just needs to be a change in political will, specifically around funding. Something like 75% of schools are going to posting a defecit budget next year. I cant see how a government can plough to an election with 3/4 of schools bankrupt.

State schools had problems when they were being showered with money by Labour government. It's not always just about money. Throwing more money at schools won't improve them - after all, Labour trebled the spending on the NHS and improvements were marginal at best. Money is, of course, PART of the issue, but lots of different aspects need attention too. Far too often, the money is spent on shiny new buildings which look good but are pretty pointless unless other underlying issues aren't addressed,

If Labour get in at the next election - which they well might - they say they will have a big push against independent schools so soon those who can afford it and elect to educate their dc privately will no longer have the choice.

Corbyn says lots of things that he can't/won't deliver. If the Labour party had any wish to do this, they had the perfect opportunity during their 13 years of government. But, they didn't and in fact there were senior Labour politicians happily sending their kids to private schools. The next Labour government may make a few trivial changes to give the appearance of tacking the issue, but they'll be pretty irrelevant and it'll all get forgotten.

We went private because the 2 state schools we had a chance of getting in are awful. in reality, in our town (london commuter belt), you need to spend a lot of money for any decent school- either by buying or renting max 400 m away, or going private. costs are about the same (houses so close to these schools cost about 100k more). we figured private is the more honest option.

@Dapplegrey i want to see labour getting an additional 300 places per year group in our town alone. if they kill private schools, they have to offer school places. which don’t exist - kids are in containers in bulge classes in all of our local primary schools. we were allocated a shithole of a school 3 miles away, and have 5 primary schools within 1.5 miles...