Are state schools beyond help?

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I see so many threads on AIBU about state schools. There seem to be issues with teachers (specifically the lack of consistent teachers and number of supply teachers), kids behaviour not being dealt with, lack of resources, cost of having to subsidise underfunded schools etc etc.

Is the state school system really as dysfunctional as it appears on mumsnet? Should I be saving up to send my kid to private schools? You don’t see parents coming on here and complaining about their private school.

For those of you with kids in state schools, would you send your kids to private school if money wasn’t a problem?

We could not have done the jobs we have done and paid for our DCs to go to private school. So we would have either had to choose to work harder/ longer and have less time with our DC or have done what we have done which is to be more present in our DCs lives and hope that the efforts we have made to enrich their education has made a difference.

“For those of you with kids in state schools, would you send your kids to private school if money wasn’t a problem?”
It wasn’t and I didn’t.

Our DS loves his state school. He's had opportunities I never had at my comprehensive school (his is comprehensive too). His results, after his first year, are all 90% plus in every subject. He has good friends and is 10minutes walk from home. The school has a grammar band which is now running a waiting list compared to one of our grammar schools which has vacancies as it's providing such a good education.

Would I send him to private school? No. We had a friend whose son won a bursary to a private school and it was awful. He was primary school age and had learned French at his state primary school. He was a year ahead of the kids in the private school class who'd never gone near the language. The teacher approached my friend asking her to tell her DC not to put his hand up in class as it made the other children feel bad. Basically it showed the school to be inadequate as it wasn't teaching the paying kids to the same level as a state school had and the parents were complaining! Only one private school obviously but I wouldn't bother.

My DH and a couple of my friends attended private schools. They were the ‘poor kids’ in the school so didn’t have the fancy designer clothing, brand new technology and couldn’t afford to go on the 10k+ school trips either. My ILs literally scrimped and scraped to send him and his sister to private school. They were middle class families so obviously not poor but compared to the ultra rich toffs in their school they were. They all told me they felt outcast. DH has had lots of issues worrying that his parents wasted thousands on his education and that his degree isn’t good enough, his career isn’t good enough compared to the rich kids he went to school with etc. His friends from school are pretty ghastly...

With all that in mind, I would not send my DC to private school. They have all thrived in a state school. I think it’s possibly area dependent, you need to consider the sort of families in the area. I don’t wish to sound judgemental, it’s just a school on a sink estate is probably going to be tougher than a school in a leafy suburb iykwim.

God our local state secondary school is so oversubscribed that there is a lot of disappointment amongst parents here.

They have exam results that equal if not exceed many private schools and there's always a few pupils that get into Oxbridge each year.

So depending on where you are in the country, do not write state schools off!

They need a massive injection of money but that’s not a priority for current government
Far too simplistic, certain groups think that throwing more and more money at a problem will solve it but education needs far more than that. First and foremost it needs to not be a political football, the parents need to support the school not encourage their children to misbehave by supporting them when they do and there needs to be a long period of stability in the curriculum. Teachers should be free to teach and not be expected to act as social workers, police officers, marriage guidance etc etc. If they were relieved of every extraneous job and children were engaged and alert then standards would rise. It's no co-incidence that almost every stroppy parent has a poorly behaved child.

“For those of you with kids in state schools, would you send your kids to private school if money wasn’t a problem?”
No. Our reasons for choosing state education has nothing to do our finances.

And no I wouldn't have sent mine to private given the glowing report I've given of our local secondary. There are very few that send theirs private locally and it's usually part of a relocation type package where the companies are paying the fees with the people I know that do.

My children have gone to a very average state school and all the issues mentioned have been part of their education. Some poor teachers, lack of funds, some bad behaviour but I would not have picked another school for them because it is actually a strong community minded school. It accepts everyone who applies and that means children from very poor backgrounds to children of doctors. Teachers do care and take pride in supporting pupils. Kids look for eachother and the Head values integration and children doing their best over excellence at whatever costs.

DD is now studying Medicine and although a large proportion of her peers have been privately educated, she is getting excelkent results. Not only did going to the average comp not hold her back academically, it gave her a good insight of dealing with people from various background and coping with limited resources, ie. a good taste of our society.

The one thing that puts me off private even if we could afford it is that when I was at uni I knew some people who had gone through the private system and although that had good grades at A level it was like they had never done any independent study. I'm guessing they were quite well tutored but this was an entirely new skill and one their lecturers didn't have a lot of sympathy for. I don't know if this is typical of private education or something that has changed to be fair.

I don't know if this is typical of private education or something that has changed to be fair

With the caveat that this is anecdote in response to anecdote, that wasn’t my experience of private education. We were very much taught the skills of independent study. I’ve noted that DD has also been similar given the skills to do so although different schools/life stages (I went two years prep, then senior at private; she has done prep and is now at a state selective grammar)

I would now send mine to a private school if I could find a good one.
There are some excellent state schools with excellent teachers and I am thankful that my children are at one of them. However the bottom line is that state education in this country is suffering massively from cuts and more cuts and there is only so much that can be done.

I try my best for my class and try to provide good resources for them but it is increasingly at my own cost because there just is not the money in the school budget to provide resources. It's different in other areas but the area I teach in is one of the worst funded in the country. I've probably spent about £70 of my own money on things for lessons over the last month.

We can afford private no problem and have gone state secondary, private primary for various reasons. Absolutely no regrets whatsoever I can’t see that any of the privates would offer a £22/25k a year advantage over what we are getting

Interesting thread, me & DH have been talking about secondary schools recently. DC are only 3&1 so a long way off but we might have to move to get into a better catchment area as our local secondary school is dire. Local primary school is supposedly excellent though.
As someone who went to a horrible secondary school, but worked my bum off to get to uni, I found the private school students had a lot more confidence, were more articulate, and had a greater breadth of knowledge. They had knowledge of the things like the Classics for example, so could draw comparisons with the text we were reading (I did English) with classical literature and things I knew nothing about.
All in all, not bad things. My shit school motivated me to work hard so I could get the hell out of there. Feeling like the least intelligent student on my uni course motivated me to put extra hours in at the library to catch up. But I would love private school for my two. We’ve started saving..

8% of children go to private school. Most of the remainder go to state. So, there's bound to be less complaints. Ten times less if there's the same amount.

And, no, I didn't choose private even though we can afford it. The state schools my dc go to is better than the private locally imo.

I've noticed on mumsnet, and in real life, more often than not, the complaints are unfounded. Made by parents who complain about everything.

I think it all comes down to if the advantages of the state school they are at outweigh the disadvantages of the lack of funding. For my DC's school it is without doubt that they are at an excellent state school - they have many pupils applying to join existing year groups including pupils from private schools - but many schools are not like that.

Some state schools are incredible. I am lucky and we have a really good state comp on our doorstep. It's desperately short of money but my kids are doing well. I wouldn't ever send my children to private school, no. I work in one and totally understand the attraction (small classes, strong pastoral care, lots of extracurricular etc) but those kids are spoon-fed and rather over-cosseted compared to those in state education, and I don't think it does them any favours in the long term.

@Biscuits I know exactly what you mean, my DC's school teachers say the same about the pupils who move from private school. DD says the same thing about some of her university peers from private school too.

^ should add, it's not teachers inappropriately gossiping but it is mentioned in staff meetings from time to time.

I work in one and totally understand the attraction (small classes, strong pastoral care, lots of extracurricular etc) but those kids are spoon-fed and rather over-cosseted compared to those in state education, and I don't think it does them any favours in the long term

But you can’t extrapolate that out to every private school.

Hence why these threads never go well!

I'm a school governor at my dcs state secondary. Despite the constant need to save money and make the money we have go further......no. I definitely don't think that state schools are 'beyond hope'

We have some beloved staff members leaving this year. However, it's important to note that they're going upwards in their career and taking on head teacher roles, middle leader roles or heads of department roles at different schools. We're proud of them. As a silver lining we have some amazing new teachers to start in Sept. Some very experienced in Stem subjects and languages.

Our class sizes are around 25.

Behaviour is not out of control.

The Arts are thriving at our school. This year our school performed in the Shakespeare Schools festival in a large theatre. We have summer music concerts, a fully fledged orchestra made from pupils who are amazing every year in our annual whole school productions. Only last night I watched a drama performance that blew us away. Directed by one of our 6th formers.

Our pupils have the opportunities many many times during school to go abroad on wildly different trips.

I could go on......

I'm really proud of what we achieve in our school. Frankly I'm sick and tired of people comparing facilities and class sizes at Private to State. Of course facilities are better. Parents pay a fortune for it!

And yes, to repeat what others have said - there's good and bad schools everywhere no matter what they are.

It's the government that's the problem rather than the schools themselves. No, I wouldn't go private even if I could, because I am opposed to the existence of a two tier system. And also because I worry the private schools are full of posh brats who would look down their noses at us!

If we could just get a sensible government that would put money into education and stop pissing it away on Brexit, all could be well.

There’s a funding crisis, schools are getting rid of teaching assistants, can’t afford expensive experienced teachers so are managing them out, can’t afford textbooks and resources. Courses are being cut at GCSE and A-level as schools can’t run them or staff them.

There’s a critical shortage of qualified teachers. Gaps are being filled by any warm willing body, class sizes are increasing.

Teacher survey data shows poor pupil behaviour is widespread. Pastoral care is being cut, SEN services are inadequate. Pupils with mental health issues are not supported due to funding cuts to external agencies.

Schools are desperately trying to shield pupils from the effects of this, and are putting their game face onto parents because they don’t want to look bad and need bums on seats.

“Frankly I'm sick and tired of people comparing facilities and class sizes at Private to State. Of course facilities are better. Parents pay a fortune for it”

Absolutely this! I remember a poster once saying that music lessons were free at their private school.......