To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

@datun People who have gone through full surgical reassignment being legally recognised.

Leontine

I see quite a few people thinking it's not important. Until it is.

Until it affects you.

Then you can't believe how bloody important it is.

Public health England have a statement on their website about people who identify as female but were born Male not needing to attend for cervical screening - but there have been complaints that they don't get invited for screening even though they consider themselves to be female. ffs like the nhs isn't Dealing with enough right now, the nhs could actually collapse under the NHS consultant pension issues right now, yet there are people who are biologically Male kicking up a stink because they don't get invited to cervical screening (WHICH THEY DONT NEED!) wasting everyone's bloody time and money!

Responding only to the original post, I think we need to be able to use sex as the determining factor on medical treatments, yes. I think it's essential that a person is called in for tests appropriate to their biology. I couldn't give a stuff what someone calls themselves or what they wear, but I do think it's important that medical treatment for the physical body somebody resides in is appropriate. Biological women show vastly different symptoms of a heart attack to biological men, for example. Dressing the meat suit as the opposite gender to your biological sex doesn't stop cancer or heart problems.

@datun As a gay woman, I struggle with the idea of someone with a penis calling themselves a lesbian, so I’m not completely open minded when it comes to trans issues. But if a person has had a surgery then I would.

When all said and done though, trans people (of any kind) aren’t very common at all though, so I think some people put a disproportionate amount of thought into it.

I imagine there would be a lot of doctor's time wasted and money spent on unnecessary tests to find out why this man was having these unusual symptoms.

But would there?

How many people are we talking about? How many trans women are going to the Dr reporting symptoms of a medical condition that they can't have? Even if some are, most GPS will examine you before referring on - I think the situation will become obvious quite quickly.

Honestly, I think this particular problem is a non issue.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/09/one-50-prisoners-identify-transsexual-first-figures-show-amid/amp/

It used to be a non issue when being transsexual actually meant something. However now anyone can claim to be trans just by a feeling in their head that no-one can verify things are very different.

Leontine

@datun People who have gone through full surgical reassignment being legally recognised.

Why should a man be legally recognised as a woman? Who is this benefiting?

(Also I'll think you'll find it's highly transphobic to suggest that you need surgical reassignment. Not to mention ethically unsound).

We have had various men claim that they should be legally recognised as women because of surgery, longevity, intention, passing (i.e. looks), or just because they say so.

Basically you're left with a bunch of men deciding a) what a woman means, and b) how they are entitled to usurp them.

None of this benefits women. It disadvantages them from start to finish.

it would affect the doctor and other staff/nurse/pharmacist etc treating them as they could potentially administer the wrong treatment and medication and then be in trouble/lose their job when things go wrong for the patient.

Such as what though? I can't think of any treatments that applies to.

Transmen get to have a view on men's stuff too...

@MenstruatorExtraordinaire

There are quite a few diagnostic processes that are different for men and women. The real danger is in mis-diagnosis because biological sex was obscured.

And drugs do have a different effect on men than on women. Viagra is an obvious one. Then there’s the difference in average muscle mass and metabolic rates. Women aren’t just small men. Our bodies often metabolise substances very differently.

In fact, medicine is only beginning to discover how different the female body is because research trials have largely been carried out on young or middle aged men.

The default male in medicine has very much affected the quality of treatment for women. Such as the signs of a heart attack in women being very different.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2240949/Male-to-female-kidney-transplants-more-likely-to-fail.html

Yes sex matters in so many ways.

“One of the biggest things we’ve learned is that cellular biology is sex-specific,” says Berga, whose interest in sex differences dates to her undergraduate days at the University of Virginia in the 1970s. “Every single cell has a chromosomal sex, and the ‘cellular machinery’ is independent of hormones."

www.wakehealth.edu/Stories/Differences-Between-Men-and-Women

But in most cases scans and other tests would be done ahead of treatment. There is no way that drs won't know the biological sex of a kidney donor or recipient for example.

I've also never known drug dosages calculated according to sex. Weight yes, but not sex.

I really don't think this is a problem.

@xarra I know I have too much fat and a bit too much body hair and too shorter legs doesn’t mean I necessarily like it, but neither does it mean I can go round telling everyone I’m a skinny woman with legs up to my armpits and skin that’s shiney smooth! Even if I did a doctor wouldn’t play along,they would need to make a note of my weight in case it was relevant

Xarra

Transmen get to have a view on men's stuff too...

No they don't.

And this is how you refusing to recognise sex means you don't recognise sexism, Or the inherent power dynamic between men and women (ie sexism).

Show me the women, identifying as men, who are clamouring to get into men's prisons. Or the women, identifying as men, who are beating men in sport. Or the women identifying as men, who are frightening men in changing rooms or toilets.

DecomposingComposers - if a man went to the doctors with all the symptoms of period pain, and he had abdominal pains, lethargy, anaemia etc then he would obviously be prescribed a different course of treatment to a woman with those symptoms.

I listen to the "ologies" podcast which is generally very good. The presenter speaks to a specialist in a different ology each week. The gynaecology one was.... interesting. Lots of very woke language about women. The presenter asked the gynaecologist whether she treated trans women, there was a second's pause. "I see more transmen, to be honest" said the gynaecologist.

You don't say. Of course the recording of biological arc is important.

There is no way that drs won't know the biological sex of a kidney donor or recipient for example.

So what is the effing, bollocking point of trying to obscure it in the first place???

Seriously. Listen to what you are saying. You are agreeing. But still saying people should retain the right, in law, to obscure it.

You know it shouldn't happen, because you are saying well, they will know!

You know what, if I was a doctor, and a bloke was sitting in front of me who had crushing gender dysphoria, do you seriously think I would keep saying you're a bloke, you're a bloke???

No.

But if I wrote this man has prostate problems on his form, I don't want to be fucking fired.

Add more to the point, if I had an AGP individual who was insisting I kept referring to them as she, and making a fucking meal out of it, I want to be able to say no, fuck the fuck off.

Without being fired.

DecomposingComposers - if a man went to the doctors with all the symptoms of period pain, and he had abdominal pains, lethargy, anaemia etc then he would obviously be prescribed a different course of treatment to a woman with those symptoms.

Yeah a woman would be told its part of being female, lots of women just get on with it why cant you women give birth in fields, for reasons I cannot explain I refuse to prescribe you HRT which would stop these symptoms and bring you relief and finally I am male I cannot relate therefore its a no.

Sorry I am projecting as that was the conclusion of my last GP visit

GleefulGlitch

My friend was desperate to be sterilised. But it was refused on the grounds that she might want more children. And also what about her husband? Maybe he does?

At exactly same time as her brother was given a vasectomy without a second glance.