To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

@jellyfrizz

Maybe we should just call people the names and pronouns they want to use (even in a doctor's surgery) and assume some vague competence that they know what's in their body & will inform a doctor. If they don't, they're stupid.

Biological need isn't the only driver in society, being polite, recognising people's identity, and the names they want to be called, isn't a biological need...

Nah, thanks for the offer, but photos don't show the person "in person" weirdly enough. I fully accept that some people can make themselves look certain ways in photos.

NONE of which changes the fact that they're still male/female underneath and that gender is nonsense.

You are talking nonsense.

And if ‘she’ demands a Brazilian wax or access to ladies changing facilities?

Wrong pronouns.....correct pronouns

He/she refers to a persons sex.
If you choose a pronoun that does not match your sex then you should be prepared for people to forget your choice or refuse to lie.

I dont use preferred pronouns. I avoid it by not using them at all or if I have to I say they. Humans cannot and do not change sex.

xarra, please always approach female penises with caution.

oh Leontine, Leontine

Taking it all right back tot he beginning....

Biological need isn't the only driver in society, being polite, recognising people's identity, and the names they want to be called, isn't a biological need...

I wasn't suggesting it is. I just can't see (other than pronouns, which I don't have a problem with) why you would treat someone differently because of their gender?

It's not about attributes. You just... know. You know how you identify. It's something that makes up 'you'. That 'you' would still be you if you were a brain in a jar. That's your identity. And part of that identity is your gender.

The reason you can't list of each of the attributes is because being female isn't a feeling. It's a material reality and a description of reproductive potential.

What you're talking about is how some men like to be feminine. They like the idea of what they perceive woman to be.

We can all see it. It's as plain as day, when some of them walk around in fishnet stockings, plunging bras, overly made up faces and long blonde wigs. It's not a difficult concept for people to grasp, for heavens sake. What it is, is highly sexist and detrimental to actual women.

Gender dysphoria, again, a well recognised condition. Where a person will reject their anatomy. On the basis that they don't feel as though their anatomy fits them, because people are telling them that their personality is wrong for that type of body.

It's so bloody regressive. And transgender ideology perpetuates it.

Telling men and women that if they want to display the attributes (superficial attributes), of the opposite sex, they must become the opposite sex only serves to perpetuate the idea that their bodies were wrong in the first place. Those attributes are not for them.

I'm astonished you can't see it.

Jackie Green told her (then) son that his preference for toy dolls was wrong. She took all his toys away, ffs. And took him to the doctor. She told him, categorically, that he was the wrong sex for those toys.

So he transitioned.

My first inkling of how sexist this all is was when a transwoman on here told me that they wanted to transition so they could feel more 'vibrant'.

They felt utterly unable to be vibrant as a man. By agreeing to the ideology, they were saying that men can't be vibrant.

Women can't like girls, or wear hobnailed boots, and wield a chainsaw. Men can't be vibrant and wear silk.

And I thought we were getting somewhere. We're going backwards.

If I told the doctor that I was a man, then these problems would be impossible to treat properly.

But who would that affect? Only you surely. I wouldn't be harmed by it would I, so why is it my concern?

@CuriousaboutSamphire what do people want to achieve/think they’re going to achieve by going on about it constantly?

But who would that affect? Only you surely. I wouldn't be harmed by it would I, so why is it my concern?

You can't be serious. You want to enshrine in law that people have to lie in order to accommodate others who are clearly not advocating for their own health, otherwise you'll be fired from your job?

Leontine

It's not people, particularly, who are concerned. It's women.

If you can't define women in law, women's rights disappear.

If you don't recognise sex, you don't recognise sexism.

Hence feminists being at the forefront.

But who would that affect? Only you surely. I wouldn't be harmed by it would I, so why is it my concern?

I imagine there would be a lot of doctor's time wasted and money spent on unnecessary tests to find out why this man was having these unusual symptoms.

Do other people really “feel” male or female? A PP said something similar. Obviously I know I’m female but I wouldn’t say I feel like any other woman as they are separate entities from me.

I strongly “think” I’m pretty and good for my age. based on being told that by people until I hit 40.I like to party. However I haven’t aged well. Fags, drinking and sun have caught up with me and approaching 50 I am clearly verging on unattractive now. Do I feel uncomfortable in my now aged body -yep.
Should I tell everyone I am actually 21 because that’s the age I most identify with? Should I have surgery to erase the lines, lift the face and boobs. I could do but it would be bollocks. I might indeed feel better in myself looking younger but it’s in my head. I am still 49.

@datun I do understand the issues with self-ID, but surely those who have gone through a full surgical reassignment it’s not really a problem?

Why do people on this site seem so fixated with trans issues?

People are meaning makers. It is unsettling, frustrating and distressing when things don't make sense or undermine an individual's sense of the world. There are lots of narratives surrounding trans issues that wittingly or unwittingly undermine basic premises upon which logical and coherent meaning making is based. The people who post about trans issues are (typically) not willing or able to reject (or pretend to reject) the foundations upon which their biology, physical health, sexuality is understood/based. Like trans people's, non trans people's identities are fundamental to their well being and dignity and when trans people demand changes to systems to accommodate their identities this is often without regard, or with known disregard, for the impact on the dignity and identity of others. We need to find solutions that do not undermine any given group, we mustn't through people under the bus!
I do not have a gender identity. Both personally and politically I want to be thought of as a human and to have human expectations placed upon me (not gendered ones) that are underpinned by mutually dignity and respect. Where sex is relevant to a given situation (e.g health and sexuality) I want my sex to be recognised - I am female.

You do know that Doctors can often grieve when a patient has died and they feel that they should have been able to do something for them? Imagine the burden of that.

DecomposingComposers - it would affect the doctor and other staff/nurse/pharmacist etc treating them as they could potentially administer the wrong treatment and medication and then be in trouble/lose their job when things go wrong for the patient.

Also not good for the wider world as treatments need to be developed, tested and tailored to either men or women.

what do people want to achieve/think they’re going to achieve by going on about it constantly? To make as many wome aware of the realities of TRA actions; To show what the legal ramifications for wmen and girls are. To stop womens rights being rolled backa few hundred years; To simply discuss it; lots of reasons.

Why don't you think it is important? Why does it seem to bore you? Yo can just hide the threads...

Trans women can't identify as women as there is no way that they could possibly know what is like to be a biological woman. They have their own perception of what it's like to be a woman and I'll do my very best to ensure that my sex isn't defined by mens ideas of what being a woman is, because it's incorrect.

I agree - personally myself I wouldn't want to be given a Male does of a drug if I was biologically female and identifying as Male! Not sure why anyone would not want correct medical treatment based on their actual biology.

Leontine

@datun I do understand the issues with self-ID, but surely those who have gone through a full surgical reassignment it’s not really a problem?

What's not a problem? You're going to have to be a bit more specific!

MsMustDoBetter

Trans women can't identify as women as there is no way that they could possibly know what is like to be a biological woman. They have their own perception of what it's like to be a woman and I'll do my very best to ensure that my sex isn't defined by mens ideas of what being a woman is, because it's incorrect.

Exactly. It's sexism on acid.

I don’t think it’s unimportant, I just think it’s not as much of a big deal that some people make out.

@Nothingcomesforfree yy.

I'm so exhausted lately and I just want to rest all the time. I prefer classical music and old literature. Since I feel like I'm at least 70 years old inside, can I retire with my full state pension, get my free bus pass and tv licence, and move into the heavily restricted over-50s only accommodation? (Except when I feel like a child and should clearly get free child meals and cinema tickets of course.)

And though I might seem to be an infertile woman without children, I also feel like I'm a mum deep down, so I demand to be able to use the parent and child spaces, and also get child tax credits from now on, thanks.

Heaven help anyone who criticises me: My personal feelings are supreme and override any of your boring little realities designed to help other people.