To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

And very young adults are being sterilised too on the basis of ‘I feel’. Weird huh?

if a man went to the doctors with all the symptoms of period pain, and he had abdominal pains, lethargy, anaemia etc then he would obviously be prescribed a different course of treatment to a woman with those symptoms.

If anyone went to the GP with those symptoms I would hope that the GP would read their notes, take a history and order some tests - even just a FBC .

If the patient is really determined to fabricate an illness, or lie about their medical history in order to get treatment they dont need or miss out on treatment that they do, then they can do that regardless of sex.

This really isn't preventing anything.

But if I wrote this man has prostate problems on his form, I don't want to be fucking fired.

But has this happened? Has a Dr been fired for diagnosing a sex specific illness?

The Dr in the OP has refused to use preferred pronouns. That is entirely different to correctly diagnosing a medical condition.

If I went to my GP and asked to be called Mrs X and they insisted on calling me by first name then I would be pissed off. It wouldn't affect my treatment but it would show me that my Dr had no regard or respect for me as a person, so yes, any Dr that refuses to address a patient in the manner that they've requested should get a reprimand.

But why should a doctor have to work harder to confirm the sex of their patient - wasting time and possibly resources knowing that if the suspect say prostate problems in someone sitting there in a dress calling themselves Mary and wondering if they will have a complaint if they say ‘I think you need a prostate check’?

My friend was desperate to be sterilised. But it was refused on the grounds that she might want more children. And also what about her husband? Maybe he does?

At exactly same time as her brother was given a vasectomy without a second glance.

I asked to be starilised at 26 after 2 children both boys.
I was told no I was too young what if my husband wanted girls??

I fell pregnant at 30 while having the coil with twins. I nearly died.
DP was 31 told is appointment was in 3 weeks he was never questioned. Childbirth may not kill him but it nearly killed me yet he was given the op without question!!!

In what way are they working harder?

And again, if the patient doesn't tell the Dr that they have a prostate, the only person risking harm is the patient.

I still don't think that it's anyone else's concern. I can conceal aspects of my medical history if I choose to do so. I would be stupid to do it but ultimately it's only me that will be harmed by it. And many people do it.

We did already have this incredibly sad story on this thread, didn't we?

metro.co.uk/2019/05/20/pregnant-transgender-mans-baby-died-because-nurse-didnt-realize-he-was-in-labor-9613972/

Don't want to do the reading? OK

Transman, 32 years old, went to hospital. Nurse didn't think he was urgent, obese man with abdominal pain who hhad said he had stopped taking hi sblood pressure medicine.

Dr writing in the NEJM summed it up ‘He was rightly classified as a man. But that classification threw us off from considering his actual medical needs. The baby died!

Working harder - not just a quick check of the notes - but look and think - hang on a minute, is that? Yes definitely... then pussy foot around trying to get around the issue without just coming out and saying ‘on you form you say female and you come in saying you have ‘women’s problems’ but come on love, you are not a bio woman’.

Can you imagine the lawsuit if a male ends up with prostate cancer because they refused to admit their sex or the clinic was too sacred /didn’t understand the records to call them up for their prostate checks but merrily sent them reminders for their smear?

If you can’t be honest with your doctor then you are a fool.

Then have 2 things on the form - gender (male/female/other) and assigned at birth sex (male/female)

Doctors sees both. Treats on basis of latter, respects former. Simple.

Simple Well no, not really. Manly because the 'tyrans community' that you lay such store by have already rejected @other' or any note or naming that referes to their 'dead self'.

Your suggestion is horrendously transphobic. And don't blame me for that... blame your trans friends and their TRA allies!

The obvious problem with his argument is the religious aspect. What we really need are doctors standing up and saying it's ludicrous and dangerous from a purely biological aspect.

Er, I'd quite like other as a gender option.

And I suspect a lot of trans people are sensible enough to realise in the context of doctors, them knowing what parts they have/had are important and therefore would be ok with an assigned sex at birth as well to inform treatment, as long as their gender was respected...

Seriously, I've no idea what trans people you've met, the ones I know are reasonable and sensible normal people who realise that their doctor would need their medical history, including what biology they have...

If you can’t be honest with your doctor then you are a fool.

Yes, I agree. But people are allowed to be foolish, particularly if the only person to be affected is themselves.

And yes, the story about the pregnant trans man is incredibly sad. But that could happen to a woman too. I've been in a and e when girls (and one woman that I can remember) denied that there was any possibility that they could be pregnant, and yet they were.

Tbh any patient presenting with severe abdo pain should be properly examined to see what is going on. Any number of life threatening conditions could be happening that should be excluded so I can't see how that pregnancy could be missed. Maybe it wasn't immediately obvious but why weren't things like acute abdomen or aneurysm excluded? Plus, many posters on here claim that trans men and women simply don't pass in real life - so how were medical professionals not aware?

But if someone is arguing black is white that they are a man a doctor can’t force an internal exam on them can they?

Xarra have you no idea what TRA actions, legal porceedings etc have been taken in the UK and across the Western world?

Many posters here have trans friends and relatives, or indeed are trans themselves. Please, as a relative new poster here, stop trying to educate us. Try working out who your audience is first.

TRAs are not nice, kind, reasonable people. Transwomen are not steppin gup and saying "Not in our name" loudly enough, or are being abused, deingreated as Truscum, when they do! That leaves women, cunty ones, to pint out to an ever woke world whay it is a bad thng to leve TRA actions unchecked.

That you, and Decomposing and many pthers can't see it just means you yourselves have not been personally affected and (funnily enough) cannot imagine it being an issue. That is not the lived experience of many other women posting here.

Decomposing stop with the whataboutery. What happened happened becuase in a busy hospital a nurse went on appearances and didn't think further... a baby died. A women presenting like that would have had entirely different treatment. You asked for instances, yu dent them when you get them! Why? What is your agenda? Or do you just not want to believe that the current trans push for validation is harmful to many people?

You just see the oddities and when things go wrong, and assume that's the norm... Utter bollocks! Again and again that is levelled at GC women. Again and again it is explained, patiently, i detail, that this is a fundamental lie and bears no resemblance to what is being said, typed, believed.

It is simplistic tripe and does nobody any good!

stop with the whataboutery. What happened happened becuase in a busy hospital a nurse went on appearances and didn't think further... a baby died. A women presenting like that would have had entirely different treatment. You asked for instances, yu dent them when you get them! Why? What is your agenda? Or do you just not want to believe that the current trans push for validation is harmful to many people?

How the hell is it whataboutery?

This is not harmful to anyone other than the trans person if they choose not to disclose any relevant history. Why is it anyone else's business?

People presenting with undiagnosed medical problems should have a complete workup. Severe abdo pain of unknown cause should trigger an examination and then either a scan or X ray which would have shown a baby.

And yes, I asked for instances and you've given 1. If the nurse couldn't identify a potentially urgent problem then I reckon the same would have happened had this been a woman presenting in the same way who was unaware of being pregnant.

I say again, if any patient decides to not disclose relevant history and come to harm because if it then that is their choice. I don't want drs allowed to compel me to have investigations or treatment against my will and I'm certainly not going to argue that it be done to anyone else.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

Record chromosome but don't call it "sex" or "male" or "female". Just XX or XY. That is what is rreally important medically. Not quibbling over whether the patient is a man or a woman.

Record chromosome but don't call it "sex" or "male" or "female". Just XX or XY. That is what isrreallyimportant medically. Not quibbling over whether the patient is a man or a woman.

But the words man or women worked well for distinguishing sex. The majority of the world have a word for man/women no matter the language.

Universally accepted is male or female. It translates well and is universally recognised why change it?

DecomposingComposers

But if I wrote this man has prostate problems on his form, I don't want to be fucking fired.

But has this happened? Has a Dr been fired for diagnosing a sex specific illness?

Oh dear lord you need to stop expecting everyone to do this work for you. It's a criminal offence for a doctor to disclose the trans status of a patient. Not a civil offence, a criminal offence. So if the transman is pregnant and the doctor thinks there's something wrong they have to write pain in the abdomen, not pain because of pregnant. Unless the transman tells them it's fine.

In which case, the urgency of the matter will not be inherent in the referral.

The power given to these people is beyond measure.

And I suspect a lot of trans people are sensible enough to realise in the context of doctors, them knowing what parts they have/had are important and therefore would be ok with an assigned sex at birth as well to inform treatment, as long as their gender was respected...

Again, we don't make laws based on whether or not people are sensible, or sensitive. What don't you get about this? People are being fired for not adhering to compelled lies. Who gives a shit whether you personally think you have an identity or not!

Can someone please explain to me why we suddenly have to change the meanings of words that have worked fine for centuries?

Man and woman, trans man and trans woman. What is wrong with that? Why are they trying to force people to say things that they do not believe. Like TWAW?

I don't get it. Why are they ashamed of being trans? Surely Pride and all that stuff is about celebrating what you are. So celebrate being trans. Don't browbeat people into submission.

*So celebrate being trans. Don't browbeat people into submission.

The fact that they can, and are, shows exactly where the power lies.

@GleefulGlitch ideally we'd all have chromosome tests at birth so we could be sure what our biology was anyway...

Why we can't just record both gender and sex I don't know.

@Datun Who compels the lie? It's not a lie if a transwoman says they're female and wants to be addressed with female pronouns. Hopefully they've also told the doctor they are biologically male. Both are true. And unless you've been in the position where someone's told you you're not who you think you are, then saying 'who gives a shit' is rather unfair - because to people who have been told that, it matters.

I'd fully expect someone to be fired for being rude & disrespectful...

@Datun Who compels the lie? It's not a lie if a transwoman says they're female and wants to be addressed with female pronouns.

Of course it's a lie. You can't be male and female at the same time.

This is how convicted rapists are allowed to assault incarcerated women. This is how men with a tampon fetish and an interest in 10-year-old girls can take women to court for not touching their penis. This is how 19-year-old boys can represent women as a political woman's officer. This is how our MPs can feel perfectly happy with a parliament made up of 50% men and 50% men who identify as women. This is how a doctor of 26 years is fired for not capitulating to male delusional demands. This is how a boy is expelled for not agreeing that there are more than two sexes.

This is how any predatory male, any bully, or any man who wants to dominate women can do so with impunity.

This is how a man who identified as a woman and smacked a pensioner to the ground, made her call him she, in court.

Who compels the lie? The men with the power.

And you, you personally, are helping them.