To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

So there will be less attacks on transwomen because there's less transwomen!

Not true. Even accounting for the smaller population, the proportion of attacks on women is still larger per capita.

If you're going to introduce per capita statistics you'd do well to remember trans women are more likely to be perpetrators than victims.

Transwomen do NOT want to erase women.

Call your vagina a vagina, call your breastfeeding, breastfeeding.

Transwomen want to be recognised as women. It's not pie. Them being recognised as women doesn't stop you being a woman. It doesn't stop you identifying how you want to. Transwomen are not saying 'all women must refer to things the way we want!' they're saying 'when talking about transwomen, this is good terminology, when talking about other women, they can use what they want.'

Cismen don't want to be women. They're men.

Look at the end of the day, the problem is Male violence (and yes that does include trans women). But it's not women's problem to solve by putting themselves at more risk. You solve the problem. Then come back and debate.

Cismen don't want to be women. They're men.

Correct. But plenty are happy to pretend they do in order to abuse women. How do we tell the difference?

abfab I still can’t believe that someone wrote that xarra 🤦‍♀️

So, someone looks like a man, because they're a transman.

How do you enforce that single sex aspect of the ladies toilet? If you say no to any masculine looking people, you exclude transmen (biological sex: female), if you don't question everyone how do you stop transwomen doing what they do now and have done for years and just going in anyway? Because they look and present female, so you'd never know.

So you end up questioning any masculine looking people, who could just be a masculine AFAB women, or they could be a transman, a transwoman, or they could be a nasty cismale sneaking in. The first 2 are entitled to be in there, AFAB women get very pissy at being asked to prove they're really female...

And no, as several people have said, many trans people present as their gender, and you can't tell.

They must suffer and be abused to keep you safe?

Well, there’s the true position of stated right there - the important people are the trans people and the safety of actual, not pretend, women is subordinate to that.

No one can tell me how to police single sex female toilets?

Assuming that legally everyone knows it's only for biological females.

How do you ensure that you don't:

Annoy masculine looking biological females, allowing them free entry without hinderance.
Annoy transmen who are entitled to be in there, allowing them free entry without hinderance.
Stop transfemales who sneak in because they present fully female, Stop cismales who sneak in who may still look masculine

Anyone?

Such an expert on all trans women. How? Where does your knowledge and expertise come from? Your vast network of two or three trans friends who happen, happily, to be decent human beings? Lucky you. So whilst you're lecturing me on not letting my bad experience colour all future interactions, perhaps I could suggest that your current good experiences are clearly colouring your view of the issue? That ever occurred to you @xarra?

And I am the King of Wishful Thinking!

No, I don't want anyone to be suffer and be abused.

No woman should be.

Yes, it does get more complex when you bear in mind a heart doesn't have a gender, so a penis should also be able to be a female penis (i.e. the penis belonging to someone who mentally identifies a female) but it took me a while to get my head round.

A female penis!! Heard it all now

I was going to keep engaging but I keep being distracted by the memories of the time I took pity on the local Mormons and invited them in out of the rain.

The specifics may be different but this feels remarkably similar to that long-ago conversation.

It is a beautiful demonstration of the power of naming though.

Xarra you cannot see the problem because you have capitulated to their words. The problem cannot be expressed in their words. That is the purpose of the words: to make this problem, and others like it, unnameable, unthinkable.

Sorry @Xarra

It took a while to RTFT but I'm bloody glad I did! You believe there's such a thing as a female penis. As such, YAB SO U that you don't get to hound people for answers to questions until you understand that there is no such thing as feeling like a woman . Although, I am grateful I got to communicate with the self appointed head of the entire trans/queer/non-binary/agender (can't choose!!) community. I am eternally grateful.

It is not hard! If you're a biological male, then you're a man. If you're a biological female, then you're a woman.

That'll be all! HTH

P.S. All this feeling like a woman nonsense has got me singing Shania Twain incessantly (in my female brain). It's driving me up the wall!

Never mind tyro. You seen the 750 women at the Wpuk meeting. Awesome. Just fucking awesome.

Women pushing back
No one shouted out. I am an abfab at any point

Women pushing back on this shite 💪💪

How do you ensure that you don't:
Annoy masculine looking biological females, allowing them free entry without hinderance.

The first is something we've never collectively perfected. Progress has been made through attempting to reduce lesbophobia and increase acceptance of females as women regardless of their gender presentation.

This progress is being reversed by the insistence on allowing males into female facilities and removing the right to challenge, and by the insistence that females with certain presentations are not women.

As for how we avoid hindering transmen as they go about their business, I personally would favour ceasing to encourage butch lesbians to identify as trans, and resuming anti-lesbophobia and anti-gender-stereotyping efforts. The problem will largely resolve in time, as long as facilities remain single-sex.

Xarra, you keep on circling around and around various what-abouts and what-ifs and postulations and scenarios which you fail to back up with any evidence at all, let alone any credible evidence, and which are based on your own individual feelings and perceptions.

These what-abouts and postulations have all been dealt with already, hundreds of times. Research has already been done.

E.g.: try this Mumsnet thread, for example:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?pg=18
Loads of references to read up.

E.g., for an in-depth investigation, please read, for example:
fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/FPFW_report_19SEPT2018.pdf
(Report on Supporting Women in Domestic and Sexual Violence Services)

Xarra We shouldn’t have to police women’s toilets though. We haven’t previously needed to.

It’s only now that we are almost at the point that men ( any man because we can’t be transphobic) can’t be stopped from going in that’s it’s an issue.

The Female Penis!

< writes to Germaine Greer to suggest a sequel >

And I don't know I'm a woman.

Youve had to two children. You've been pregnant.

I, and the entire world, can categorically tell you that you are a woman. If you don't want to believe that, then fine, but I don't think you can get much more factual tbh.

How do you ensure that you don't: Annoy masculine looking biological females
When did society start giving a shiny shit about woman’s feelings?

Transwomen do NOT want to erase women

Prominent transwomen have tweeted things saying that it's 'exclusionary' for women to discuss their reproductive systems. How is that not erasing women?

@Xarra have you ever considered why transmen would be using the women's toilets instead of the men's? Curious isn't it how transwomen demand to use the women's toilets but transmen use the women's? How do you explain that?

Who was it that said - ‘enjoy your erasion’? Was that the quote?

Or why such people have put them in positions that they know will upset vulnerable women (ie rape centres) yet still pushed their way in, playing the ‘transphobic card’ to anyone who opposed them?