To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

Also, ladies toilets have cubicles.

So do gents...

Madigan truly is the gift that keeps on giving! Certainly is. And Posie is as short and sharp as ever!

Jeez xarra. You so don’t listen at all

It’s all about you

You are just so not listening to what women are saying at all

Not one bit
It’s like we are not worth listening to

I'm a gender.

What does that mean? If you are 'agender' how do you know you're a woman?

So, you're saying transwomen who are very likely to be subject to abuse and harm themselves by being in the male toilet, must go in the male toilet to prevent possible abuse and harm to you

I’ve expressly said I’m not suggesting that.

You seem to think women’s spaces are there for validation, not safety.

Yes, women's loos aren't there to make certain males feel better about themselves! Jeez!

They must suffer and be abused to keep you safe?

Why not? Why is their safety more important than mine? At least they're physically better able to defend themselves than I am.

Also how is it “caring” for women to say they should accept the risk of “possible abuse and harm” for the benefit of others?

The position is that trans women are both at risk of male Violence, and fall within the risk category for committing it. Third spaces solves the safety issue on both counts. This isn’t about safety for you, it’s about validation.

People don't have penises, only men do.

We've reached a Gilead-ean state where no one is allowed to speak the truth without being shut down by threats of violence.

I'm aware most people with penises are fine. I'm married to the possessor of a very fine one, as it happens. Statistically, you are right. I should have been safe in a women's toilet, in public. But I wasn't, because a man put on a dress and said he felt like a woman, so he was within his rights to be there.

Womens toilets are for women. Transwomen are women.

And I don't know I'm a woman. I'm agender. I don't identify as a woman. I don't link my identity to my biology.

Like several people have said, I feel like 'me', I don't feel any 'gender', I like some masculine stuff, some female stuff. I don't know what being a 'woman' feels like. I don't give a damn if I have a penis, or breasts, or am a robot. I don't link my mind and my body. Therefore to me, it's sensible to identify as agender.

However some people do feel strongly that they are a gender. Including trans* people. I don't understand how, but I believe them when they say it and go through hell and back to transition, and all the stress it causes and the mockery, and the dismissiveness, and the transphobia. You don't go through all that if you don't sincerely believe in it.

If this has been mentioned my apologies but I’m too tired to check 700+ messages.

I saw a program in the 80’s about a man called George who wanted to become Julia. After she had the surgery to create a vagina she collapsed at home, the doctors assumed she was having a miscarriage or internal bleeding and ruined her surgery.

Womens toilets are for women. Transwomen are wome

Ya daft bugger. Women's toilets are for biological females. Men's for biological males. They're designed to fulfil the differing physical needs of both - sanitary bins or urinals. They're attributes of physical sex, not gender identity.

I don't link my identity to my biolog

In common with 98% of the world then....

@Jamsangwich That's awful. But they were an abuser who abused their privilage of being in that space.

A man who exposes himself to little boys in the mens is abusing their space.

Deal with the abusers, and don't demonise the non-abusers.

@titchy - if they're on hormones, which affect body mass and muscles, probably not? And neither of you should be at risk. But in a balance of probabilities, the transwoman is far more likely to be sexually abused than a man go into the ladies and abuse you.

That's like saying, you're perfectly happy with someone taking a huge risk, because it stops you having a tiny one...

But in a balance of probabilities, the transwoman is far more likely to be sexually abused than a man go into the ladies and abuse you.

That's not true though. The incidence of trans women being attacked in Male facilities is minuscule. The incidence of women being attacked in female facilities by males is HUGE.

@titchy So, a man comes into the toilet, says he's a biological female. Should he have to prove he's biologically female to be in there?

A woman comes into the toilet, she looks a bit masculine. Does she have to prove she's really female to be in there?

That's like saying, you're perfectly happy with someone taking a huge risk, because it stops you having a tiny one...

So to correct you - I'm happy for a very small number of people to take a very very small risk in order to stop a very large number of people taking a very very large one.

HTH

However some people do feel strongly that they are a gender. Including trans people. I don't understand how, but I believe them when they say it and go through hell and back to transition, and all the stress it causes and the mockery, and the dismissiveness, and the transphobia. You don't go through all that if you don't sincerely believe in it*

I accept all of that, however it doesn’t deal with the evidential basis on which you say gender identity is a protective factor when it comes to male violence, which stats suggest trans women (as a class) commit at similar rates to men (as a class).

I’m not trying to shit on trans women. I’m trying to get you to engage with the actual issues, which you aren’t. You just keep saying you want to be nice to trans women.

Sorry @Xarra

Gender isn't a thing. Biological sex is and cannot be changed. That's really as simple as I can put it for you?

Alas, you'll still stick to your guns. Absolutey fine by me but the facts don't change. I won't be erased, nor passively allow it to happen to other women, because biological men feel like they have to dominate the entire human race and invade anything meant exclusively for biological females...

@titchy And when adjusted for the fact there's a lot less transwomen than AFAB women?

So there will be less attacks on transwomen because there's less transwomen!

Nor are you engaging with the point that your concern about safety is dealt with by a gender neutral option.

1. He’s a man so shouldn’t be there and we should absolutely be able to challenge.
2. Won’t happen - we just know (also above)

We shouldn't even be in a situation where we have to consider asking someone to prove their sex.

If everyone was clear that toilets, refuges, changing rooms, dorms, prisons were single SEX, and that the organisation responsible for those facilities would enforce that single sex aspect, as is the law, there would be no need to challenge.

Still not listening to women. You still don’t listen just go round and round and round

Circle of hell
Abfab 😂😂😂😂