To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

Xarra A MAN CANNOT EVER BE BIOLOGICALLY FEMALE, ITS AN IMPOSSIBILITY.

What would YOU do, Xarra?

I would say a medical card would be a useful defence if challenged, and would keep out the chancers and the perverts.

Sad it has to come to this, of course.

I'm not. You're the one saying it's an issue. Because transmen use the mens, and transwomen use the ladies already, every day, and you don't realise.

And no male presenting people use the ladies without getting chased out/arrested and no female presenting ones use the mens...

It already happens. Every day. And trans people use the toilets they want, and in general with common sense that if they look like a man they'll get into trouble in the ladies, so they don't do that until they can 'pass' because it's common sense. You're worrying about things that already happen without issue.

It works FINE as is. But now you know it's happening, you all object.

Don't worry. The problem has been been sorted by this brilliant young aspiring politician. Women who don't want to share facilities with males can create their own facilities. Its a cunning plan my Lord. We could call them the Ladies Loos....

I don't think a lot of AFAB women have an objection to sharing with a transwoman who walks in, goes to a cubicle, does her business, washes her hands & leaves.

And I think if the most you're worried about is wee on the seat you've not seen the ladies in clubs after a heavy night...

OMG - Madigan truly is the gift that keeps on giving!

What about self-id? Full man in ladies loo because he says he's a woman? No one able to challenge because of his protected transiness?

I do wish there was a way to quite literally swap bodiesvfor those who wanted to. Its interesting to wonder if a male suddenly given a biological female body (science fiction so assume its possible) would be contented. Or if the physical realities would be too much of a shock. And, of course, vice versa, ftm. Its the halfway house all trans folks find themselves in that must be awful. I do have sympathy for those who live their lives as men, yet know they have to go for smear tests etc. It must feel so distressing.

This is all a red herring. We all managed fine with single sex facilities before all this crap appeared.

We really did, didn't we!

A very small minority of transsexuals (usually people who had had full SRS) used female bathrooms, and women were OK with it. Because transsexuals weren't claiming they were actually women, or that they should use whatever changing room they feel like that day (looking at you Travis Alabanza), weren't trying to gain access to women's prisons, weren't contacting the employers of gender critical women to try and get them sacked for saying things like 'women don't have penises', weren't telling them to 'die in a fire TERF' or 'suck my dick' or whatever, weren't trying to muscle in on women's sports or women's politics, weren't telling women that they can't talk about their reproductive systems because its 'exclusionary'.... I really could go on all night here.

And women have sat up and thought 'hang on, maybe this is no longer just a handful (2000 throughout the whole country I believe is the figure) of genuinely gender dysphoric males who really do just want to live under the radar'. Women are saying 'this feels wrong, this feels like something more is happening here now'.

And now women are saying 'no'.

But if he is actually female physically, by your idea of single sex toilets, he should be in there unchallenged. So shouldn't need to be challenged.

I don't think a lot of AFAB women

You mean 'women' here don't you?

Xarra, you're being obtuse and offensive. I clearly stated I was sexually assaulted in a women's toilets by a ladycock. Hasn't happened to you? Aren't you lucky.

@Jamsangwich That's precisely what I was saying. If you could sci-fi switch bodies, would someone who was an AFAB woman be happy in a male body? Would she suddenly identify as male as she's now got a biologically male body?

Or is there something more insintric than what your body is as to your gender?

Then a transwoman should be prevents from using the men's facilities and need to use the woman's. You can't have it both ways

You’ve totally missed my point. I’m asking your view on if trans men should be able to use women’s spaces because it seems from your post you think they should. So that’s trans men and trans women who are allowed to use the women’s. What about gender fluid people? Should someone male who occasionally identifies as a woman be allowed to as well?

Incidentally I’m personally not bothered about trans women using the women’s. I’m bothered by women who are being called hysterical and transphobic.

@Jamsangwich And I'm sorry someone abused you in that way. But that doesn't mean that that all people with penises will do that.

That's like saying because one man killed a woman, no men should be allowed around women.

Of course all ‘people with penises’ won’t do that. Most won’t. But the purpose of female only spaces is to prevent such assaults by keeping all male people (or ‘people with penises’) out of them. Yes that means keeping out those who don’t pose a risk as well, because it’s impossible to tell who will and won’t commit assaults. So the only way to prevent it is to keep all male people out.

I don’t understand what you’re not getting about that point.

The circle of hell here 😂😂😂

Nobody except those who were unhappy would swap bodies though. At present, those who fancy it can be a woman one day, a man the next. I'm talking about a permanent SciFi swap. Irreversible.

No. Transmen should be using the mens. As long as it is safe for them. If it's not safe for them, where else should they use? The ladies?

Transwomen should be using the women's.

Strangely the ladies is safer in general (because men are more likely to abuse people) so if you appear female, then that's safer... It's not as simple because of men being dangerous to transmen who still appear female, and transwomen who present female.

It's complicated and you are all just oversimplifying it to 'oh, single sex toilets solve it'.

I'm agender. I'd like to have the confidence to use the mens or womens (if available I use the unisex ones). Gender fluid? Use the one you identify as currently. Simple.

Again, trans* people just want to go to the damn toilet in peace in a place that fits their gender. They aren't there to leer at you.

Also, ladies toilets have cubicles. So no one can see what parts someone has anyway...

And I'm sorry someone abused you in that way. But that doesn't mean that that all people with penises will do that.

So why do we keep all men out of women's spaces then? If not all 'people with penises' (lol) will do it? Why don't we let the good men in?

720 posts and half of them are just bollocks

Circle of hell is right littlebrown

7th level of hell

Whenever I see 'AFAB' I always think of Absolutely Fabulous!

So, you're saying transwomen who are very likely to be subject to abuse and harm themselves by being in the male toilet, must go in the male toilet to prevent possible abuse and harm to you?

They must suffer and be abused to keep you safe?

Lovely. What happened to caring for people?

Gender fluid? Use the one you identify as currently. Simple

So you’re basically opening up women’s spaces to pretty much anyone. You seem to think women’s spaces are there for validation, not safety.

And the thing is it isn’t just toilets (which I e already said I don’t feel strongly about). It’s changing rooms, refuges, hospital wards, rape crisis centres, medical examinations etc. This is anything but “simple”.