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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

933 replies

MenstruatorExtraordinaire · 09/07/2019 11:17

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

OP posts:
koshkat · 10/07/2019 20:16

The way you do it is keep loos sex segregated and then women will know that a masculine presenting person using the loos is still going to be female and they will not be scared.

Mate, this is not rocket science!

Xarra · 10/07/2019 20:16

Erm, they'd be risking sexual assault in the men's or ladies. By men or women. So I don't let them unattended in either. That kind of prevents any problems. I'd equally treat it as a risk in the mens or ladies for ds as in the ladies or mens for dd...

littlbrowndog · 10/07/2019 20:17

Xarra. Why are women pushing back on this

SlocombePooter · 10/07/2019 20:19

The current trend is for gender neutral toilets, truly the worst of all worlds. This is supposed to be "inclusive" but is an infringement on female dignity and safety. A third neutral space would be fairer to all concerned.

Jamsangwich · 10/07/2019 20:19

She won't sit on the loo. She'll stand, piss all over it and the next poor cow who comes after her will be left to wipe it up.

koshkat · 10/07/2019 20:19

Xarra 120 women in prison for sex offences but there are 14000 men I believe.

Xarra · 10/07/2019 20:19

But it COULD be a predatory male pretending to be a transman!

So for your safety, transwomen must use the mens, because they're a threat due to their biology. Transmen must use the mens because they could be cismale and don't want to be misidentified/arrested/attacked because they're thought to be a predatory male... So basically everyone but AFAB has to use the mens?

littlbrowndog · 10/07/2019 20:20

Xarra why are women pushing back on this ?

Xarra · 10/07/2019 20:21

I'd think a female wrestling champion, or a woman on illegal testosterone for sporting reasons, or a lot of other AFAB women are more dangerous than your average transwoman who just wants to use the loo and get out of there without sexual harrassment...

SlocombePooter · 10/07/2019 20:22

That would be super!

koshkat · 10/07/2019 20:22

Also the term gender neutral needs to go - mixed sex is the truth of it and some people may not realise what it means. My elderly mum would not understand gender neutral and would be terrified to share a loo with men. Same goes for other vulnerable groups - women with English as a second language etc.

SlocombePooter · 10/07/2019 20:23

Loos just for women, what a great idea!

Jamsangwich · 10/07/2019 20:23

Xarra, I used to believe in fairy stories too.

koshkat · 10/07/2019 20:23

Sorry but I cannot take seriously anyone usng the terms AFAB and AMAB. No one has their gender assigned - they have their sex observed.

littlbrowndog · 10/07/2019 20:24

Jeez no answer. Must be a tricky question 😂😂🤦‍♀️

SlocombePooter · 10/07/2019 20:26

Another problem with mixed sex toilets is that men have opportunity to plant cameras.

rabbitwoman · 10/07/2019 20:26

See, it's taken this long to think about where transmen fit in, and what is best for transmen.

Transmen loose out in ALL areas of this transgender agender, if you ask me. People are bending over backwards to accommodate vocal transwomen in sport, prisons, refuges, women only lists and female spaces - these same ideologies seem to completely exclude transmen .... So this isn't about transGENDER acceptance and rights at all, is it, it's about TRANSWOMEN.....

transmen need female facilities, from toilets to refuges, as they can be menstruating, pregnant, breastfeeding, miscarriaging, victims of rape or domestic abuse, and they need the protections and the voice of feminism .....

Tyrotoxicity · 10/07/2019 20:28

Xarra you are invalidating people who do not share your worldview. Given that your worldview incorporates the primacy of validation, this seems ironic.

Let me tell you another story.

Once upon a time, very effeminate boys sometimes believed they could navigate a sexist and homophobic world more easily, with less mental anguish, if they were permitted to present to the world as heterosexual females. They were given surgeries and hormones to facilitate this illusion. Their acceptance into the social group 'women' was done out of kindness.

At the same time, many heterosexual boys were learning to objectify the female form and fetishise the feminine gender that is forced on females. Some took this to extremes, and took to wearing women's clothes in public and committing sexual offences against females while doing so.

There are a great many more males falling into the second category than the first. This has always been so. The second category represents a significant risk to female women; perhaps even greater than that posed by male men. The first category poses no direct risk to female women.

Once upon a time, we called the first group of males transsexuals. We called the second group transvestites. Now, we lump both together under the word transgender.

"Transgender" when applied to males covers both the first group (a very small subset of males) and the second group (a significantly larger and more dangerous subset of males).

For both subsets of males, sexism is at the very root of the 'story' through which they understand themselves to be women.

If one subset of males is at risk from other males, then let us have separate facilities for male men and male women. If one subset of females is at risk from other females, then let us have separate facilities for female women and female men. Four separate facilities, subdivided by both sex and 'gender identity'. Maximum safety for all is ensured in this way.

Also, Xarra, I feel you might find certain subreddits enlightening. Sissy porn and forced feminisation are a big thing in porn right now. I have seen post after post of males wondering if they might be transgender after training themselves to become aroused and achieve orgasm through imagining themselves being forced to submit to that most degrading of things, femininity.

I have seen the responses they get. I have seen the affirmation that they are women. Insisting these males do not got through this experience and come to understand themselves as women is tremendously invalidating for AGPs. It is transphobic.

Jamsangwich · 10/07/2019 20:30

Camera abuses is a creepy one, for sure. Korea's problems with voyeurs and cameras gives me the heeby jeebies.

littlbrowndog · 10/07/2019 20:30

Nailed it tyro 👌

littlbrowndog · 10/07/2019 20:32

Anyway gotta go bake a cake or something instead of getting an answer to why women are pushing back

Xarra · 10/07/2019 20:32

AFAB women are pushing back on this:

a) because they percieve a far greater threat to their safety than actually exists from the genuine trans community.

b) because of an insistence of a shared 'female experience' that only AFAB women can possibly have, so only they can truely be women. No woman has the same experiences. What about sterile women? Women without a uterus? Women who are tomboys vs women who are pagent stars? My period is different to yours. The idea that all women have a global 'female experience' that someone AMAB can't have - because they have the wrong parts is wrong. Yes, they will have male privilege. But a high flying executive of any gender has more privilage than a homeless person - they have nowhere near the same experience. And that AMAB person may be a transwoman who gets privilage due to their apperance only. In the same way someone in a suit has more privilage than someone in rags due to appearance.

YES women are oppressed. Yes, globally women are 'secondary'. But just because a transwoman hasn't had a period doesn't make her less a woman.

c) because you want your spaces because women are somehow 'special' and you can't comprehend women who aren't like you.

Xarra · 10/07/2019 20:35

but if transmen dare say they want 'period products' rather than feminine hygiene products because they're not female there's an uproar.

And transmen get on perfectly happily with life and there's a lot less fuss made about them and a lot less hysteria, because you don't view them as a threat and they don't make the news as often.

SlocombePooter · 10/07/2019 20:36

Sorry Xarra you are just a stuck record.

SlocombePooter · 10/07/2019 20:37

I don't have a uterus, yet every cell in my body is female. Strange, huh?

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