To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

You're all perfectly happy with transmen in female changing rooms then? Even if they appear 100% male? And are on testosterone?

Transwomen are women.
AFAB women are women.
Transwomen can't be AFAB women.
AFAB women can't be transwomen.

And 99.9% of the time, all the women in the lady's, and all the men in the men's, just want to get changed, or have a piss. Most trans people would use a cubicle anyway. Genuine trans people are not there to assault you. They're there to use the damn room.

Any evidence of how many assaults happen in changing rooms or toilets by people who are not trans? Men sneaking into the lady's? Pretty sure that's a hell of a lot more common.

I'm not saying women can't be transwomen - I'm saying AFAB women can't be trans any more than trans women are AFAB?

And transwomen maybe don't want to change in a room of men. They are likely to get abused themselves (FAR more likely than you are by them in the lady's) - so by insisting someone who is of very very very tiny risk to you uses the men's room, you're actively putting them in danger and they are likely to get abused. Because men.

Although transmen are welcome to use the ladies, because they're 'not really men,' even if they 100% appear to be, act as a male, and if they used the men's they could be abused because they're really women (although they fit in far more in there) and we have to protect the poor female males... < sarcasm.

...if only you could understand, then you’d agree with me...

I am being nudged by social disapproval towards rejecting my own worldview and replacing it with someone else's.

This is an act of dominance. I will not submit to it.

Certain types of people are used to such tactics seeming to work. I suspect they'll eventually grow up when they meet enough people in real life on whom it doesn't seem to work that they're forced to get over themselves though.

The so called trans umbrella is getting wider and wider, so to say that only a teeny tiny number of transwomen would pose a risk is laughable. Autogynephiles and transvestites are now classed as trans. As I understand it, they do not necessarily suffer from gender dysphoria. Thus, they will rush in on the coattails of the genuinely dysphoric, and nobody will be able to enforce clear safeguarding boundaries. The law must catch up fast. At the moment it's all a big mess.

You're all perfectly happy with transmen in female changing rooms then? Even if they appear 100% male? And are on testosterone?

Do you think a trans man should be in a mens prison?

Of course transmen are welcome in the ladies - they are biologiocal women and not a threat to us.They may prefer to use the men's where they are no threat to men either.

I ask again - is Karen White not actually a TW then? How can you tell?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

Karen White in case you don't know them.

Karen said that Karen was trans. Maybe Karen is - who the hell knows? At least with biology a quick peek will tell you all you need to know.

And transwomen maybe don't want to change in a room of men. They are likely to get abused themselves (FAR more likely than you are by them in the lady's) - so by insisting someone who is of very very very tiny risk to you uses the men's room, you're actively putting them in danger and they are likely to get abused. Because men.

They should be in the men's. Because men. You say they're likely to get abused there - better get the men onto that problem then. It has zero to do with women.

Xarra you claim to be a parent. Are you happy at the thought of either of your children using a public toilet unaccompanied? If not, why not?

Indeed - let men sort out male violence and stop using women as shields.

You're all perfectly happy with transmen in female changing rooms then? Even if they appear 100% male? And are on testosterone?

Actually I do have some qualms about females who take testosterone and are encouraged to display stereotypically-masculine behaviours being in female-only spaces. But as they are female, they meet the entry requirements. They represent a far lesser potential threat than males of any gender.

I am happy to put my own slight unease aside because as yet I have no data on rates of verbal, physical, or sexual assault committed by female men on female women to compare to the rates of similar crimes committed by males of either gender on female women.

I am not happy to put aside my own slight unease about male women in female facilities as the available data indicates males of any gender represent a significant risk in these spaces.

If, in a few years' time, we are seeing an epidemic of transmen committing sexual violence against women, then I will be happy to revisit the topic of their inclusion in female-only spaces.

Your statement that a genuine trans woman would not be there to harm is ridiculous
There is no category exempt from criminal activity or violence. It is a fact though that males are by far more violent than females and trans women are of the category male

Due to hormones, you genuinely can't tell a lot of the time.

Also due to hormones, a transwoman is generally a lot less of a 'threat' than they were when they weren't on hormones. A transman is a lot more of a 'threat' due to testosterone.

I appreciate many trans* people aren't on hormones, but, really, most transwomen just want to be left alone and fit in with other women. They only pose a threat because you percieve them as male.

I get it, I get that women see men as a threat. It's a horrible horrible situation, and I get that men aren't helping the situation often. However transwomen see men as a threat too. Transwomen are abused by men. They're sex-traded by men. They're killed by men. Most transwomen are not a threat to you.

People who do not identify as a transwoman and are abusing the identity are a threat. But that is not the fault of trans* people. You don't deny people rights because other people are essentially pretending to be like them...

So keep toilets single SEX.

It is not a man's 'right' to use a women's loo. Sorry.

I don't want my kid in a public toilet unaccompanied because someone might run off with them... Or they might run off or cause chaos. I don't care if it's a ladies or mens, because both men and women can abuse children.

I think a transman should be in a male prison.

I also think that re: the numbers of prisoners IDing as female, that's probably because female prisons are seen as 'easier' and 'nicer' than mens, and they want the comfort. Or if they do want access to women, see the 'pretending' thing.

It's impossible to prove if someone's pretending or not, that's the hard bit.

Never answered my question on why you think women are pushing back on this

Seen a massive crowd at wpuk event tonight. 100s of women

Why ?

So you ARE happy to let your children risk sexual assault., Xarra ? That's very idealistic of you.

It's impossible to prove if someone's pretending or not, that's the hard bit

YES! So if we cannot tell who is real trans and who is a faker to get access to vulnerable women, why would we let any old man who claims to be a woman in to women's safe spaces?

So glad that you understand at last!

Seen your update. Glad you are NOT happy about them risking sexual assault. Neither are us other Mums.

Wish I was at that WPUK event. Gutted that I couldn't go.

I seen the pics on twitter. Massive crowd. A year ago would have been so much smaller

A year ago this thread would have been pulled

Why has this changed ?

Then transwomen who appear 100% female get abused and hurt by men in the mens. And transmen get yelled at for being in the ladies.

Question: You're in the ladies. You see a man come in. Do you: a) tell him to get out, b) ask if he's really female, c) ask him to drop his pants?

If he says he's female, how do you know he's not a transman? You've just said they're welcome in the ladies. Do you insist on seeing his birth certificate? He's told you he's female, he can tell you he was born female, but, would you assume he's a predatory male and needs to get out, or he's a transman who just needs the loo?

Visa versa for a transwoman in the mens. She says she's got male parts. Does she have to prove it? Does she have to deal with sexual abuse because she's using the 'correct' toilet? Or she could go into the ladies, use a cubicle, sit on the loo, do her business, and you'd never know...

You can't have it both ways.

He sounds like an arse to me, and yes should have got the sack.