To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

If males were not so violent there wouldn't be a need to seggregate
Trans women are male. I do not believe they are women. They are trans women. You cannot force people to believe in an ideology
Trans women and women are not the same and I see no reason to group them together. Putting males in with females harms females
Retain single sex categories and let people identify as they wish within those categories
Gender is socially constructed it is not fact

Rather than people who have read the headlines of tabloids and are panicking...

I don't think that is true for many of the women who have attempted to engage with you if that is what you are implying. You definitely don't know your audience. I have done a lot of research into gender/trans ideology. It has been necessary for reasons that I don't care to explain, but it goes far beyond tabloid headlines in my case. However, panicking yes. I am panicking that I may have to share particular intimate spaces with anyone who declares themselves a woman. I have valid reasons to panic.

The issue with people with biologically male bodies into 'female' spaces is an issue about people feeling safe where they are. I really think you are vastly overexagerrating the danger. I would suggest you've shared changing rooms with transwomen before and just not known as they've used a cubicle, or just focused on getting changed like you were...

The calling people correct pronouns is an issue of respect of calling people their preferred pronouns. If 'Tina' changes her name to 'Lily' you don't insist on whether they look like a Lily, want to see their deed poll, or refuse to because it's not on their birth certificate, you just call them what they wish to be called.

It's no problem for me. it makes them happy. It's polite. It's kind.

And if it's lying to you? You've never lied just to make someone happy? "That dress is lovely!"

Me too.

Of TWWW then all trans women would say this. But they don’t.

Grayson Perry would be classified as a TW under the ever growing stonewall umbrella. But he doesn’t think he is a woman. Nor do the lovely Debbie or divine Fionne.

@Tyrotoxicity

At no point did I say your experience was irrelevant and I also said a majority of people not all.

I'm really not sure why people are people so defensive?

We all believe what we believe.... It doesn't mean that either belief is wrong.

And for someone who says they don't like labels you seem to really like labels xarra.

I think the fact that xarra has to defer to someone with the special trans status over and above the identity and experience of reality of women here really sums it up the point I've already made.

Woman have to defer and come second to that. They are deemed 'lesser' in the social status scale than someone with trans status.

Women can't be trans women yet trans women are women? That's the point. They are not equal and the same.

It's primarily about power and status and submitting your identity to be less important because you are a woman.

If we are drastically overexaggerating the danger of male bodied people then why don't transwomen use the men's changing rooms?

Why are TW allowed to fear men in loos and chaging rooms but women are not?

There are days I could pass as a trans woman I’m sure. Actually probably not. 50 years of ‘girling’ take their toll...

We all believe what we believe.... It doesn't mean that either belief is wrong.

Nor does it mean its right and that people who disagree are bigoted or disadvantaged by the political power behind that belief.

The issue with people with biologically male bodies into 'female' spaces is an issue about people feeling safe where they are.

It's not simply about FEELING safe.

It's about BEING safe. Safer, at least. The majority of male-on-female sexual assaults in areas such as changing rooms occur in MIXED-SEX facilities; that is, UNISEX facilities; that is, GENDER-NEUTRAL facilities. I am sure someone will be along with the stats soon enough if this point is of the slightest interest.

But if we are simply talking about FEELING safe, then I agree that female women and male women should all have access to safe facilities in which they are not made to feel unsafe.

Female women fought hard for female-only facilities to ensure both actual safety and perceived safety.

How male men and male women wish to organise their toileting arrangements is their own affair. The female facilities are not for them.

I believe medically we cannot ask if they're the gender they were assigned to at birth.

While I think if it went to court the radiographer wouldn't be held personally responsible and lose their right to practice
But speaking for me alone I would feel extremely shit for irradiating a foetus and causing miscarriage, birth defects etc.

The society of radiographers are proposing that it has now come to such a time that we may have to ask men and women when their last period was.
That will provide some protection for the potential pregnancies and the radiographers.

Personally I think it is a very odd thing to have to say and I believe some patients will be far from impressed but we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

It's not just about being safe.

It's also about dignity and the right to that.

And in some cases religious belief which can affect someone's access to that space in the first place.

Belief? Well when I was a child I believed that my grandfather sent letters to my grandma from heaven. She had some that he sent from his time during WW2 ‘I miss you, it’s strange here, I long to come home...’.

I also believed that my cat could talk but chose not to.

There is a minority within the minority that will use the trans identities to harm or abuse women. There is also the vast majority of that minority who won't. Who you don't even realise are trans because they don't display it, state it, or do anything other than live their perfectly normal lives. You are demonising the majority because of a tiny tiny minority.

And that is the same with any subset of people. Some tiny group will use something to abuse women. That doesn't mean the majority of that group aren't, well, normal, and just wanted to be treated with respect like any other person.

Again: You will have seen trans people. And not thought they were trans. You've probably seen non-trans* people who you thought were trans because of their biological features.

Treat people as people. And don't assume all transwomen will abuse being called women, just because a minority do.

It's like when people thought that all gay people would automatically abuse little boys because a few of them did (and never mind the straight people who did...)

Some of you really do need a hug...

🤗🤗🤗

By that reasoning, xarra, all toilets, changing rooms etc should be mixed sex. After all, only a small proportion of men are sexual attackers. So why aren't they all mixed?

Bottom line here - I don’t want to see a willy when I’m getting changed in the gym or when I get out of the shower at my local pool.

I don’t want women in refuges bullied into accepting room mates or staff who are male and be forced to call them ‘Miss’ - so what if they are terrified by a man? As long as the male is ok.

I don’t want a male man-handling my tits when I have my next mammogram. Or carrying out my next smear test. And know that I can’t refuse because, well you know, that this might just burst their illusion bubble and I’d be literally worse than Stalin or Pol Pot.

I’m not going to pander to someone’s imagination when this hurts women.

I'm really not sure why people are people so defensive?

I for one am not being defensive. I am assuming good faith all round and making honest and open attempts at communication. I feel I am not being afforded the same courtesy from certain quarters, as I am getting little response and no attempt to engage with the content of my words rather than the signifiers themselves. But I appreciate this is merely my feeling, and am not assuming any conscious or deliberate ill-will on anyone else's part.

It is simply a little - what is the word? - to be told I am somehow being unfair to refuse to define my own experiences according to the 'story' someone else uses to define theirs.

I am being nudged by social disapproval towards rejecting my own worldview and replacing it with someone else's.

This is an act of dominance. I will not submit to it.

It's not just about the trans community though!!!

It's about how men can also use the loopholes and special status conferred on trans women to exploit the system because women are unable to challenge and question issues because their status is woman and they are being labelled as bigoted.

This pool of men is potentially huge. This effectively makes the whole movement something of a trojan horse for men with nefarious intent at the expense of BOTH women and transwomen.

The problem is particularly acute when you take self ID into account.

Xarra the vast majority of transwomen in particular do not pass. Women can tell very easily who is male and who is not. We have to be able to do this for our own safety.

And stop with the 'not true trans' narrative about criminals - you have no right to claim that Karen White, for example, is not a transwoman have you?

And as for drawing a parallel between transactivists and gay people - there is no comparison whatsoever.

Treat people as people. And don't assume all transwomen will abuse being called women, just because a minority do.

We have segregation on the basis of sex. Not gender. Members of the female sex, women, have spaces away from members of the male sex, men, because men pose a physical threat.

Transwomen are male and thus do not belong in spaces for women. No-one said any transwoman has to be 'abusing' being called a woman. They might just be an abusive shit regardless, like tons of men. So all transwomen belong in the men's, just like all men, regardless of intentions towards women, belong in the men's.

@Tyrotoxicity

I meant towards my non offensive viewpoint but appreciate and respect your reply.

I don't want to pretend a man is a woman any more than I want to pretend god exists
They are both beliefs I am happy for others to have but not for me
Biological sex is a fact not a belief so I think sex, not gender, should be the category
Grouping by gender makes all statistics meaningless