To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

A trans woman with a lady penis is a risk to female prisoners.

Sone trans people have dysphoria and know they should have a vagina, or a penis.*

They do not know this. They believe this. Knowledge and belief are not the same thing, and strength of conviction does not confer truth.

By using 'male' and female' interchangeably with 'man-gender' and 'woman-gender' you are reinforcing the link between 'female' and 'woman'. This is both transphobic and sexist.

What happens to your assertions if we replace your usage of 'female gender identity' with 'personality socially coded as appropriate for females'?

A person is of the male sex, has a male body, but has a feminine personality. He is therefore a woman?

You are quite literally defining 'women' as a personality type. I am starting to think you are too deeply entrenched in the patriarchal mindset to be capable of grasping that this is what we call SEXISM.

i hate labels.

Except the extra ones I believe in.

End of. (fab argument that one)

Lots and lots of men are abused in prison, should they be in womens prisons too? We are not a fucking shield against male behaviour.

Apologies because I'm no where near as eloquent as some due to illness, I used to have more of a functioning brain but menopause is currently putting paid to that...

Ditto. It's one of the reasons I know I'm female, and an inconvenient one at that. I don't have this sense of being a woman in my head, just of being me.

For fucks sake, forcing people to use mental gymnastics, a Doctor in this instance. Can you imagine the problems of actively remembering to use female pronouns when talking about, or to, somebody about their prostate for example. The cognitive dissonance needing to be employed here is unreal. No one should be coerced in to denying reality to validate someones delusion, 1984 come to life.

It just enrages me that female prisoners and women in refuges are being used to validate male fetishes.

But in context, it is useful to be able to define what "type" of women, and it is far more inclusive to say transwoman do this and ciswomen do that

Since we're all here agreed that transwomen are of the male sex (medically speaking), could we perhaps compromise? We could talk of female women and male women? It has the benefit of being entirely clear and accurate, acknowledging both sex and 'gender identity'?

Transwomen are women

End of

But they are not and you cannot magic this into reality.

@Xarra.....

Yesssssssssss!!

So transmen are women with fetishes too? Why pick on the transwomen as the only 'deviants'?

And to bring this back to the OP - you sex a cat or dog. You don't sex a person.

Most fetishists are male.

Of course you sex a person FGS - we are mammals exactly as dogs and cats are.

They are women.

On what basis? Because they say they are?

But women would moan about being female women because youre just women...

And unless you and everyone else never uses male in terms of gender identity again tha doesnt work.

Fancy women moaning about wanting to be called women eh? Uppity bitches.

Transwomen are women.

End of.

Oh, well that's us told then 😂

And to bring this back to the OP - you sex a cat or dog. You don't sex a person.

Wha...?

So transmen are women with fetishes too? Why pick on the transwomen as the only 'deviants'?

Men and women have different patterns of behaviour due to socialisation and biological reasons.

Is there any particular reason that trans men should behave in a similar way to trans women?

Yes - believe in my religion because I say so.

It would be all have been been so much more straightforward if the terms were such that a transwoman was a woman who wished to be coded as male and vice versa.

I'm not even sure that I'd mind a cis and trans differentiation then (not thought that hard about it, though!)

It's funny that people have always known who men and women are.

Except that now that women are finally starting to make headway with their rights in some parts of the world, suddenly its all oh so complicated.

It will be a cold day in hell before I accept a label as stupid as 'cis'. I am a woman.

End of.

Interestingly,ba little while ago I thought I had a lump in my breast, went to see the first doctor with an available appointment, a man. He refused to examine me, said I would have to see a female doctor.

The next time I made a routine appointment to see a doctor for something completely different, it was another male doctor who started off by double checking that I did not need a female doctor.

At no time did they check my gender, or ask to confirm how I identified. They assumed I was female, I guess, because my medical records say I have a womb, ovaries etc, I am on the contraceptive pill and had previously asked for a breast exam. Silly doctors!!!

I wonder what would have happened if I had insisted I was a trans man.

I suspect where we will end up in future is chromosomal testing at birth, and birth certificates recording biological sex based on that (eg XX, XY, other). There could be a separate space for "Gender", which could be completed (or not) by parents at birth, & changed at will by the individual in adulthood.

You can change your gender and absolutely should be able to. But biological, chromosomal sex is (in today's medical terms at least) not something you can change, I struggle with the notion of a legal document like a birth certificate being factually incorrect. I'm not saying that biological sex is a binary thing either, I am aware there can be unusual variations eg Turner syndrome).

I think I'm still stuck at the

'end of argument'

It's like a toddler stamping it's foot going 'cos I want to'