To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

I see no point whatever in the idea of a nebulous, unidentifiable and unverifiable gender identity.

Let’s pretend it doesn’t exist and see if that causes any problems.

Meanwhile, I think it remains useful to have words for the two different sexes, given that it’s possible to identify someone’s sex accurately if they are unborn, unconscious or even dead.

Great post Tyrotoxicity

Non-transwomen - AFAB woman.

Woman who's anatomy (i.e. produces ova) matches up with her gender identity of a woman.

A transwomen is also a woman. Important to be able to differentiate what you mean, and just saying "woman" should mean either.

Statement: I believe transwomen are actually women.

I do not believe that in a medical sense they have female anatomy.

Q. WTF?

A. In medical sense: that this set of organs, hormones, and body systems we define as "woman", and this different set we define as "male".

Have you and idea what people look like naked? I think you are having a laugh.

*I believe transwomen are actually women.

I do not believe that in a medical sense they have female anatomy.*

So why is the poster earlier not actually a queen then if their gender is queen and you don't have to believe they were actually born into a royal family?

Xarra what if I just don't believe in gender? There is no evidence for it, its like believing in religion?

You're a woman. You identify as a woman. You're a woman.

Saying "transwomen and non-transwomen should be treated the same" needs the identifies as saying "women and women should be treated the same" is confusing, and "transwomen and women should be treated the same" is implying transwomen aren't women, because you need a different word for them

Xarra the word woman means something and it means adult human female. That is ALL that it means.

Xarra - as you feel so passionately about the dignity of pronouns, please, lose the non-transwomen. It is excruciatingly offensive. As one woman amongst many millions, I am telling you this is true, so respect my dignity and cease!

Yes, a transwomen naked can have a penis.that makes their sex and biology male. Doesn't mean they're not female gender.

Transwomen aren't women.

Transwomen are male people who identify as women.
Women are adult human females.
It is not transphobic to state this.
Using the term 'non-transwoman' when you mean woman is incredibly offensive but I think that you know that.

Can you give a non circular definition of 'woman' please?

No women ever had a penis. Not ever.

A male person who identifies as a women may well have a penis. There is a difference.

It doesn't just mean adult human female who looks female from the outside.

It also means female gender.

I don't see why only people with a vagina (and not all XX people have one) who identify as women get to use term "woman" and transwomen have to have the "trans" tacked on as if they don't really count.

Transwomen are women.

And my kids call me mum. Wouldn't care if they call me dad. But as I gave birth to them, we went with mum... And it's easier than "parent"... I'm not fussed by what gendered words I'm called!

You wished you were a man, but you didn't believe you were one. Transmen know they are one, it's not a wish.

In philosophy knowledge is defined as "true, justified belief".

Transmen do not KNOW they are men, because their belief is not empirically true. Their a priori deduction is a demonstrable falsehood. They are not male. Their belief is not knowledge. It feels utterly true to them - that is what we mean when we talk about beliefs - but it is at odds with the real world evidence of their bodies.

It also means female gender.

What does 'female gender' mean? Without using the words female or gender?

It doesn't just mean adult human female who looks female from the outside

I could not agree more. It means biological female - adult human female. That may be a butch lesbian or a glamour model - they are both women.

The word woman has nothing to do with gender whatsoever. I reject gender as do many women - I am still a woman.

Female is not a gender. It is a biological sex category. I think you mean feminine. I am not feminine in many ways, in some ways I am. I am always a woman. Even on the days I'm really acting in a way that society has decided fits in the masculine category. I am always, always a woman because that's what I am. It's not always relevant. I wish it mattered less a lot of the time. But it is always true, just as it's true that I breathe. I'm not always aware that I'm doing it but I am.

Define what a transwomen is with out reference to sex or gender stereotypes.

Saying woman cos woman cos woman is utterly meaningless and exactly what Hannah Arendt refers to about a loss of meaning representing a loss of power and how this can be abused by totalitarianist behaviour. Its a way of controlling people. Its a belief.

It is not however real. It just removes your ability to describe something and articulate what is happening.

so what i understand by you saying a trans person is a male person who identifies as a woman, is male is the sex (biology) and woman is the gender (identity)

They're a woman.

so youre a female person who identifies as a woman. you're a woman

and a transwoman feels they're a woman as natually as they breathe.

They may still do masculine things. They may still like "male" things, just like you might. Saying liking masculine things makes you no less a woman, is the same for transwomen - they can like masculine and feminine things.

They believe and know they are a woman

And by 'female' here I mean 'feminine' because this seems to be what you are arguing. Transwomen in particuar seems to mistake femininity for femaleness.
Just in case anyone thinks I think that butch lesbians look male which is not at all what I meant as they are clearly women.

The wheels on the bus go round and round

The definitions of the words go round and round

The arguments of the Woke go round and round all day long...

They believe and know they are a woman

Genuine question: how can you 'know' you are something that you have never been, that you have no experience of ever being? Surely the best it can possibly be is your outside perception of what it is to be that thing? But then you cant know you are that thing then?