To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

You're missing the fact that trans* people do not go through it all just to oppress other people or get higher status.... Or transmen wouldn't transition, because, oh, they're at the bottom of the male pecking order now?

You are missing the fact this is a belief which is extremely naive and extremely blinkered.

Female detransitioners have stated that they transitioned because they wanted to try and escape being a woman because they had been sexually abused as a child. 'Becoming male' made them invisible to the male gaze that had traumatised them.

The whole area needs a lot of research and a lot of understanding of the patterns of behaviour that are present.

The resistance by people to look at this, instead suggesting that its transphobic, is part of the problem.

Explain why just this week, the prison service has reported that 1 in 50 male prisoners are identifying as trans? And the population is 1 in 10 amongst those with a traveller background. This is far higher than the general population; which means that either there is a higher percentage of criminality in the transwoman population or that men will exploit the concept of self id to gain special status.

You might not want to confront this, because it shakes your belief and the notion that transwomen are all good and innocent and victims (which you have literally said!). There are 'good' and 'bad' in all populations. Failure to admit this, doesn't really do anyone any good and just allows society to give some with ill intent a free pass to abuse the system.

As I said, if you're happy for people to call you a woman, and you use she/her, and you're happy in your female defined body, and know you're a woman, you're a woman?

If you're not happy with that, and you know in your heart you're male, you might be trans.

But as your sex and gender likely align, then I can understand why you might find it hard to understand that your body and your mind might not, as I suspect you're taking "know you're female" as recognising your body has female defined anatomy, when that's not what I mean ..

But a transwomen finds it strange to be called a man, because their self image, their self identity, is female.

I find it strange to be faced with someone in my changing room who is obviously male and have to call them 'she'. I find it strange to refer to 'her penis'. I find it strange to see men in women's sports, prisons, refuges.

Does it not matter what I find strange?

Do you believe that transwoman are 'actually women' and should therefore be allowed women's rights protections and spaces purely on nothing more than their say so? On what basis are they actually women?

Or do you just think we should be nice and call them by preffered pronouns (which by the way is totally transphobic is that is as far as you are willing to do).

The latter I can get on board with, and many women did, for a long time.

The first, not so much.

You can't be trans-race. Race is generally physical I believe. Like sex.

Change your culture? Probably! I don't know enough about it, but I'd guess culture is the equivilant to gender in this case?

xarra you say you are agender. You tell us you have had two children. What pronouns do they use for you?

Gender is purely a social construct and is unimportant. I care not about which of the 9000 genders people identify as as long as they understand that sex change is impossible.
Sex is all that matters and it matters hugely when it comes to medical matters!

The only way I know I'm female is because of my female body and the lived experiences I have from living in that body. That is literally it.

And, as I said, it's hard to imagine your sex and your gender being different when for you they're one and the same, treated one and the same, and you don't have that disconnect.

As I do not understand what my gender is under your definition (that is not really a definition), then I cannot say that there is a disconnect between my gender and my sex. I can say with absolute certainty that I very much hate aspects of my sexed body. Or more correctly perhaps, I hate how I have been treated on the basis of my sexed body. I go to counselling for it. There is a disconnect between how I feel inside and how I would like to have been treated by others, and how I have actually been treated (because I am female).

As I said, if you're happy for people to call you a woman, and you use she/her, and you're happy in your female defined body, and know you're a woman, you're a woman?

If you're not happy with that, and you know in your heart you're male, you might be trans.

I've not been happy with my female body. I've hated it. To the point of self harm. My mother spent years telling me I thought and acted like a man. I wished I was a man.

Does that make me trans?

Nope. It makes me the victim of gender stereotypes and identifying as trans can be a way of just trying to conform to them. The dislike of body is just a manifestation of feeling like your body doesn't match the stereotype. Its upside down thinking.

I do not wish to be constrained by gender stereotypes. Does this make my gender identity, 'genderfree'?

You can't be trans-race. Race is generally physical I believe. Like sex.

Oh boy.

I believe transwomen are actually women.

I do not believe that in a medical sense they have female anatomy.

I do not believe anywhere near as many people would use that "on their say so" as you think.

I believe you're picking on a few very rare cases and taking that as the reality for all transpeople, when it's not.

I believe transwomen should be treated socially and legally the same as non-transwomen.

(Same as transmen and non-transmen)

And everyone should be treated as people.

Btw, trans* is a term for 'all trans people' rather than listing out transwomen, transmen, etc...

Change your culture? Probably! I don't know enough about it, but I'd guess culture is the equivilant to gender in this case?

So if I blacked up, wore my hair in corn rows, wore big gold chains and hoop earrings, listened to hip hop and rap, changed my name to Shaniqua and I would 'be black'?

And that would mean I could win awards reserved for black people, take political places reserved for BAME people, go on about how I'm soooo much more oppressed than 'cis' black people because of their 'cis' privilege, how I was born in the wrong body etc etc?

Really?

Sorry but WTAF is a 'non-transwoman'? Did you actually mean to say woman and got very confused?

You need to do your definition of woman again, because it has the word 'woman' in the definition so it doesn't work.

I believe transwomen are actually women.

I do not believe that in a medical sense they have female anatomy.

I think someone needs to send back their biology gsce. What exactly is a ‘medical’ sense considering that refers to the physical body?

You wished you were a man, but you didn't believe you were one. Transmen know they are one, it's not a wish.

xarra again, what pronouns do your children use for you?

I believe transwomen should be treated socially and legally the same as non-transwomen.

Ha! We are not even 'women' anymore. We are 'non- men who identify as female'.

A little offensive don't you think?

They're not trying to get people to submit to their lens. They're just wanting to be acknowledged as themselves!

Let me clarify.

Individuals have experiences. How they interpret and understand their experiences is determined by the 'stories' they have incorporated into their minds.

Once upon a time, little boys whose interests and personalities were drastically out of alignment with the masculine gender being imposed on them were told the Standard Sexism Story: that male bodies and female bodies have intrinsically different minds. The story led them to believe they were not properly men. Medical science also followed the Standard Sexism Story, reinforced this belief, and allowed these individuals to transition.

These little boys never had anything wrong with their bodies, or their minds. The problem wasn't them. It was the imposition of the masculine gender, and their inability to accept it.

Nowadays, little boys whose interests and personalities are drastically out of alignment with the masculine gender being imposed on them are told the Transgender Story: that boy bodies and girl bodies have intrinsically different minds. The story leads them to believe they are not properly boys. Medical science, following the same story, reinforces this belief, and encourages these individuals to transition.

There is nothing wrong with these little boys either, except the Standard Sexism Story permeating the context in which they develop their personalities and beliefs and personal stories of self.

What you call 'being acknowledged as themselves' is only possible if we accept the Standard Sexism Story as literal truth, simply natural, the way the real world works.

It is not natural. It is not the way the real world is 'supposed' to work. It is not innate. This lens is imposed on us all. Requiring us to capitulate to it is the very essence of male domination, of sex-based oppression.

You are asking us to be complicit in our own oppression.

And how did you know you could have kids? I don’t want to go into the biology...

Some days they are more female, sometime more male. I suspect that was good enough. Oh! You are a human being and occasionally feel more masculine or more feminine, depending on how the mood takes you and which social stereotypes it corresponds with.

Me too! For the whole of my life, as a girl and as a woman: always female, sometimes masculine, sometimes feminine, forever me!

Take me back to the gender bending 80s somebody, please! Life was so much freer back then!

Many of us grew up as 'gender nonconforming' ( tomboys I guess you might call us) but luckily there were not crazy adults around telling us that we were boys just because we climbed trees or wore trousers!

In medical sense: that this set of organs, hormones, and body systems we define as "woman", and this different set we define as "male".

Oh fecko best not....