To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

If Danielle identifies a woman, that's fine by me.

Redtoothbrush - thank you!

By 'assigned sex' it's 'this baby has a penis, that is a signifier of a male, we'll put male on the certificate'...

That's assigning something based on purely outwardly physical characteristics.

But I think you'd be a minority of one thinking 'queen' is a gender.

And yet, there's even a flag:

pride-color-schemes.tumblr.com/post/161790614625/regisgender-kinggender-or-queengender

Naw xarra just no

You are making up stuff now

I stand corrected, but that's getting into really minority genders.

Note, it doesn't give pronouns, so I'd suspect a 'kinggender' person would still use 'he/his' and you could be AMAB kinggender?

They observe they observe

I don’t know what world you live in where amab is normal usage.

It’s just just strange. Struggling with anyone using language like that amab

By 'assigned sex' it's 'this baby has a penis, that is a signifier of a male, we'll put male on the certificate'...

That's assigning something based on purely outwardly physical characteristics.

No, it's observing a characteristic that cannot develop in someone who is female, on the basis of knowledge that the characteristic cannot develop in someone who is female. You know, embryology and shit? Or did you think the people who establish such practices have the same knowledge of biology/anatomy/physiology as you?

If you'd chosen female external genitalia we could possibly have some wiggle room, but alas, you said penis.

I stand corrected, but that's getting into really minority genders.

So? Are they not valid because they are a minority? If one gender is valid, they all are.

Meanwhile in the delivery room of St Diamante hospital, Brighton...

Hmmmm, I see a penis.... so I'm gonna call... 'girl'. Mrs Smith - its a girl!'

If Danielle identifies a woman, that's fine by me.

And, women are stripped of their power, their category, their representation and their language, in one fell swoop.

That's assigning something based on purely outwardly physical characteristics.

Like the 117m females who have gone missing across the globe? Including those aborted due to their 'outward characteristics'? More than both world wars put together.

Women are oppressed due to their biology, and gender is the means.

Well done for upholding it.

You know it too - wincing at being called a woman? Because you totally buy the gender roles assigned to women, despite personally rejecting them. So much so, that if a man displays them, he must actually be a woman.

Wake up.

For people who are curious as to what a queengender flag looks like but don't want to click on the link, it is a 'flag with 3 stripes: Dark purple, purple, dark purple. In the center is a simplified vector of a hot pink 5-point crown' You'll be please to hear that the kinggender one has a blue crown.

Definition: Regisgender, Kinggender, or Queengender: A lofty, grandiose gender; The individual with this gender feels that their identity feels majestic, imposing and grand. Often involves a gender expression that is bold, commanding and confident. May openly pursue reverence of their identity from others and/or be very vocal about their identity to others, with pride. Feels more intense and bold than Pringender.

Can be Kinggender (male aligned), Queengender (female aligned), or Regisgender (nb aligned).

You can deeply believe that you're a queen. Fair enough. If you want to go into absurdity with it

Absurdity of it? How dare you be so queenphobic!

No, women are oppressed due to their sex, and aborted due to their sex.

Gender is not sex.

Gender is a tool of oppression, yes. So why on earth would someone who identifies as a woman fight so hard to be gendered the same as an oppressed group unless they genuinely felt that they were female? Why would you do that to yourself unless you had the sincere deep belief you were female? Why would you want and be comfortable with female pronouns if it made you part of a group that was oppressed?!? Why?

Why is there no issue with transmen "escaping" the oppression and taking male pronouns from you all?

And no, I can clean, hoover, have been pregnant, have 2 kids, wear dresses, have large breasts... I do some of those female gender roles. I still don't identify as female.

And youcan have hidden ovaries as XY, or high testosterone as an XX... Not just as intersex.

Also, that's why it's assigned. Babies with penises are put down as male, babies without put down as female. Unless and until something else about their biology is discovered. They're also assumed to have a gender to match their biology as that's the majority, unless and until they say otherwise (i.e. are trans)

Woman is a sex AND a gender.

Can you please clarify what you mean by 'gender' here?

I understand what 'woman' as a sex means: adult human female ie. Of the sex class which produces ova.

But I don't know what 'woman' as a gender means. At all. Do you mean stuff like wearing makeup and liking gold lamé handbags?

Also, that's why it's assigned. Babies with penises are put down as male, babies without put down as female. Unless and until something else about their biology is discovered.

Babies with penises are male, as I have already made clear.

So why on earth would someone who identifies as a woman fight so hard to be gendered the same as an oppressed group unless they genuinely felt that they were female?

Well, for a start they won't face the difficulties of female biology (periods, being sacked for pregnancy or maternity, childbirth injuries, being generally smaller and weaker than men etc.).

Gender is a tool of oppression, yes. So why on earth would someone who identifies as a woman fight so hard to be gendered the same as an oppressed group unless they genuinely felt that they were female? Why would you do that to yourself unless you had the sincere deep belief you were female?

I don't know.

Ask Pips Bunce who now makes it into the Top Women in Business lists because he sometimes wears a dress to work, whereas before he was just another semi successful city boy.

Ask Lily Madigan, who has been lauded as inspirational and a rising star, and has been given Women's Officers roles, despite seemingly having fairly low intelligence and zero charisma.

Ask Hannah Mouncey, or Rachel McKinnon, or Fallon Fox? Ask them why they want to be 'gendered' as women?

Ask Karen White why they wanted to go to a female prison?

Why is there no issue with transmen "escaping" the oppression and taking male pronouns from you all?

Because they can't escape the oppression. Shelton Dube will be able to tell you all about that.

Plus think about what transwomen make the news for: success in journalism, business, politics, sports, the arts etc.

Now think about what transmen mainly make the news for....

@dixieflatline they are medically anatomically male. They may not identify as male as they grow up.

Their biological sex is male. Their gender is usually male, however this could not be the case.

Sex is not gender.
Gender is not sex.

One is psychological, one is physical.

So why on earth would someone who identifies as a woman fight so hard to be gendered the same as an oppressed group unless they genuinely felt that they were female?

Like I said earlier no one actually wants to be treated like a woman. How many trans women are demanding less pay? Offering to stay at home looking after the kids and elderly? Being the one to take on the mental load and the majority of housework?

Pips Bunce is genderfluid. Not a transwomen. He/she uses both sets of pronouns.

So why on earth would someone who identifies as a woman fight so hard to be gendered the same as an oppressed group unless they genuinely felt that they were female?

They are not gendered the same. They are gendered as "male women" or "transwomen" or a variety of things that would probably get me deleted.

As for why they would do this?

A) They interpret their experiences through the lens of transgenderism, and think their personality makes them women. This is because they have internalised an external problem.

B) Forcing females to submit to this lens is a fun way for them to continue oppressing females.

So why on earth would someone who identifies as a woman fight so hard to be gendered the same as an oppressed group unless they genuinely felt that they were female?

In sport because your biology means you are generally bigger, stronger and likely to win even if you wouldn't against males.

In prisons as above and with the added bonus of being with people who weren't socialised to be more aggressive.

What is gender?