To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

Xarra

It's extraordinary. You wince when you hear woman or lady, because you know that those words are loaded with gender stereotypes that you reject.

Yet if a man subscribes to those same gender stereotypes, you agree he's a woman !

It's so sexist.

@LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD

Transvestites is an old, outstated and entirely wrong term. Transvestite is an AMAB man who identifies as a man but likes wearing women's clothing.

As @DecomposingComposersif it's SO obvious someone's trans then surely the pregnant man should immediately have been regcognised as anatomically female?

Why is it so hard to believe that trans people do look like their gender? HRT causes changes to the point of beard growth, and for transwomen, some of the symptoms of periods without the parts... I have trans friends who if you passed them in the street you'd gender them correctly.

And I have no issue with a transwoman being in the lady's changing room. She's probably far more worried about being 'outed' or kicked out than you think, and she just wants to get changed in peace without men watching her.

Unless when people call you 'she/her' and treat you as a woman it feels wrong and totally at odds with your identity, there's no way you'd feel any difference between your sex and your gender because there isn't one to feel.

Nobody wants to be 'treated as a woman'. It generally means being expected to do all the shit work and get paid less for it.

Does anyone else feel like they've entered some sort of parallel universe?

Why is it so hard to believe that trans people do look like their gender?*

What do you mean by gender in this sentence?

@datun

I wince because I don't identify as male or female. The words don't describe my identity. If a transwoman is called a man, then she will wince because that word doesn't fit her mental image of herself. She's a woman. If a transman is called a woman, he'd be unhappy too as it doesn't match - so call the transman, 'he', as he is a he, and that matches his identity... I have no issue with a transwoman identifying as a woman just because I don't?

Yes, Christians deeply, fully, believe in Jesus and that he is real and so on. It's a deeply held belief. It's a core part of their identity. Same as gender. It's part of who you are.

I worked with a trans person once, I had no idea this was the case until someone who knew them prior to them changing their appearance mentioned it. I can well believe there are many people out there you wouldn't know we're trans just by sight.

"she just wants to get changed in peace without men watching her."

So do I. But I was born female, and that means that apparently my wishes no longer count.

@jellyfrizz that a transwoman who identifies as a woman can look like a woman.

I have one transfemale friend who there looks like a perfectly normal, respectable, female office worker, in perfectly average clothes, and isn't flamoyant or anything. I only know she's trans because she's open about it. There is zero way I could tell she's trans just by looking at her.

And with regards to big hands or 'masculine features' - I'm pretty sure a quick google would show lots of men with 'feminine' features who are AMAB, and lots of women with 'masculine' features who are AFAB - strangely, not all women look the same...

And yet, we don't have to all say to Christians "Jesus Saves!" every time we meet them. Or greet them in the name of God. If you don't celebrate Christmas, you don't have to wish Christians a Happy Christmas, you can if you want to, or not if you don't.

There is zero way I could tell she's trans just by looking at her.*
What if your friend talks? (Though I am aware that some people have voice surgery or coaching, the stats show that most MTF don't have any medical or surgical intervention).

But if a Christian becomes a priest and asks you to call them Reverend Smith, rather than Mr Smith, do you say no, because you don't believe in god and therefore don't want to respect their identity?

@jellyfrizz that a transwoman who identifies as a woman can look like a woman.

You mean sex rather than gender then? Just curious you used gender as you were adamant that the two are completely different (which I agree with.

Yes, Christians deeply, fully, believe in Jesus and that he is real and so on. It's a deeply held belief. It's a core part of their identity. Same as gender. It's part of who you are

No. The word Christian has an actual meaning that isn’t “I feel therefore I am”.

‘Reverend’ is a title, the same as Lord, Barron etc.

Non of your examples are equal to the gender nonsense that you can’t even define.

Xarra Christians don't get to foist there beliefs on to anyone else. Trans ideology is a belief, nothing more, and also doesn't get to be foisted on to anyone else.

You've heard of HRT, right? Which alters hormones which changes physical attibutes, like beards, tone of voice, breast tissue...

I know transpeople who would say their body is female and their penis is female

Three is no such thing as a female penis.

Am I seeing the simultaneous use of 'a transwoman can look like a woman' and 'no such thing as big man hands'?

drspouse

But if you are saying that it is obvious then why do drs have to be explicitly told if a patient is a trans man or woman? According to you the Dr will just be able to tell and so will be able to consider every possibility when making a diagnosis. So the sex as recorded in the notes won't matter.

@jellyfrizz I meant that they can outwardly look like their internal gender. Poor phrasing on my part.

Christianity is a core insintrict part of some people's identity. Your gender is also a core insintrict part.

If a Christian was referred to as a Hindu all the time, they'd probably get annoyed. As it's not matching their identity.

Reverend is a way of referring to someone. Identifying them. Same as a pronoun.

To me, passing or not is neither here nor there. People should be treated the same whether male or female and however they present in the majority of circumstances.

When it comes to issues where biological differences DO matter i.e. health, sports, prisons and other areas where people are vulnerable then it is important that sex is declared, not gender.

@DixieFlatline Some trans people will still have features that don't match their gender. There are 'big man hands', that doesn't mean all trans* women have them. Some AFAB women have them.

But if a Christian becomes a priest and asks you to call them Reverend Smith, rather than Mr Smith, do you say no, because you don't believe in god and therefore don't want to respect their identity?

Someone who is a Rev has earned that title through education, just as someone who has a PhD (cough) or is a Professor.
But if you didn't believe in the validity of the church (or the Academy) then I don't think it would hurt them to have a different title.

And frankly, I've been mis-titled so many times and it hasn't hurt my ego one bit. Likewise "dead" named (Mrs Husbandsname) and mis-sexed (Dear Mr Spouse, we think you might want to put your house on the market)
Maybe made me rant a bit about sexism, but it's minor in the scheme of things.

You know how men are told that as they don't have a uterus they get no say in pregnancy or childbirth? I think the same applies here. Unless you are transgender why do you get a say in healthcare options for those that are?

No one has been able to explain why a transgender person not telling a Dr their sex affects anyone other than the transgender person themselves. Until it affects anyone else I really can't see how it is our business.

If a Christian was referred to as a Hindu all the time, they'd probably get annoyed. As it's not matching their identity

No, they’d be annoyed because it would be factually incorrect.
It’s an identity based on fact (that Christians follow Jesus).

Gender has no meaning.