To think it's because I'm black?

[notamumsymum]

Walked to co op this morning as OH has taken my car today. So me DD and DS went to pick up some fruit & veg for today.
I don't normally shop at co op I normally go to Asda or Tesco sometimes M&S.

Anyhow one of the staff in there followed me around the whole time then proceeded to wait for me at the door. I was so frustrated at this point I said I'm not stealing anything! She said well we have to be sure. Then I thought let me go back in and see if she is still waiting by the door and shock she was gone.

Aibu and just paranoid? Or am I allowed to be this angry!

well you seem like a nice person don’t you @malteaserbunnies I never said I am an expert on racism and I know I never will be but please don’t tell me the gap hasn’t been closing over the years. There is still a huge way to go, In some places more then others.. and sometimes I feel like the world has gone backwards in some areas and I don’t think it will ever fully close. but I know there has been a change and if you can’t see that then you need to go put yourself back a 100 years ago and see for yourself.
Your getting angry at me.. someone who understands racism exists just because I don’t believe that every single incident is racially motivated and that’s ridiculous.. it doesn’t have to be all or nothing you know.

I'm off to go read Why I'm No Longer Talking To White People About Race.

@malteserbunnies That's a good read.

Back in secondary school/college security guards followed me around so much that my white friends would use me as a diversion so they could steal! I never felt bad about it because if the security did their job without prejudice it wouldn't have happened.

Not sure how things are now, I just order online!

It happens to me all the time and yes I am black. Happens in Sainsbury's, Tesco, next etc
Sometimes if I'm feeling mischievous I'll ask the security personnel to hold my basket as it appears they're my personal shopper.

I'm really hoping this post isn't offensive but isn't profiling an important part of being able to focus limited resources on preventing a criminal act? Shoplifting can cost companies a lot of money and they obviously don't have enough money to be able to fund a security guard to carefully watch every potential customer so surely it makes some kind of sense to focus on those customers that fall into demographics that are statistically most likely to shop lift?

Posters on this thread have stated that mothers with pushchairs and teenagers are groups that security might target because that demographic are reasonably common offenders when it comes to shoplifting. As a mother with a pushchair myself, I fall into that demographic so will be watched a disproportionate amount but I accept that for security to be effective then it makes sense to profile people and target resources accordingly. Are ethnic minorities statistically more likely to steal? If so, is the suggestion that that race shouldn't be included in profiling just because of the wider issues associated with race and racism that undoubtedly exist? I ask because targeting teens could be seen as a form of ageism and targeting mothers could be seen as a form of sexism so why is race the characteristic that people find controversial? If it's about systematic and structural discrimination then I would suggest that women are also subject to that too...

Basically what I'm saying is are people suggesting that all profiling should be removed as it's offensive and discriminative by nature? I do agree with this but I wonder if there is a better way to target limited resources to prevent illegal activity in an effective way?

Sure keeping excluding white people from the conversation and then complain that nothing changes.. because the people you are accusing of being racist shouldn’t get a say.. You don’t want white people to judge you by appearance yet you are happy to believe they are racist by the colour of their skin and not even be open to another explanation. That’s hypocrisy!

I don’t want my daughter who has a 50/50 chance of having brown skin to grow up in a world where she is judged by the colour of her skin, but at the same time I don’t want her to become cynical and automatically assume even though I’m sure that is easy to do if it keeps happening to do.. I hope things are different for her then they are for you.

It depends who is doing the profiling.

In my local supermarkets including a Co-Op the people seen openly walking out without paying, or caught shop lifting by the security guards are in the majority white and male. They are different ages and wear different clothes. Yet it does not stop shop assistants targeting black and mixed ethnicity customers and acting like we are stealing.

I have the habit of delibrately using the self-service tills near the security guards as it is one of the only ways to stop this. It doesn't always work so I've in the past raised a complaint about a shop assistant who kept doing this to me.

I've also had shop assistants in stores follow me around then say stuff about my payment cards when I've paid for purchases. I don't have a common name and have ID on me so whose cards do they think they are? When I've made complaints I've noticed the shop assistant doesn't last long. Again the security guards in those shops don't follow me around regardless of whether I'm on my own or have a pushchair or wearing a sling/carrier.

I've also had shop assistants follow me around and then completely ignore me when I've gone to pay for items. I have then just dumped the stuff in the middle of the store and written to their head office. Yes I have received vouchers but I don't spend them as I have made purchases elsewhere including online.

I should add I only started to make complaints when I realised I had working aged nephews and nieces in their 20s doing professional jobs who would still be subjected to this shit.

Pipe down, @Saltystraw. No, you don't get a say when it's not you who's delt with it all their lives.

@ColaFreezePop
I must admit that I find it all quite hard to get my head around and form an opinion on profiling in general.

Reading some of your examples, it's pretty difficult to not come to the conclusion that it can be used to unfairly and disproportionately target minorities or those in other commonly discriminated against groups. It undoubtedly feels horrible to feel that you are being put under additional scrutiny and being suspected of illegal activity just because of a characteristic that you can't change. Combine this with the wider prejudice and racism that exists in society and I truly can understand how this can feel even worse.

On the flip side, if it can be statistically proven that certain groups are more likely to undertake specific crimes then I do think it can be useful in the prevention of illegal activity. Ultimately reducing crime does benefit law abiding citizens. I also think all humans do an element of profiling to keep ourselves and our possessions safe. For example, if walking down the street at night, I would be glad of another random woman walking close to me but would cross the road to avoid encountering a strange man. It's sexism in a way, but it is founded on statistics regarding who is most likely to cause me harm. I guess a business will do this and protect their interests too.

@Bumpitybumper in my area any profiling for shop lifting in supermarkets shows they should be targeting white males regardless of their socio-economic background.

The security guards who use CCTV, radios and the store alarms to help do their jobs do this, the shop assistants who use nothing don't.

Again I'm aware that in the areas I go shopping in the security guards talk to each other on the radio in different stores and so know who to keep an eye on. (You can actually overhear the radio if you are near them for any reason and they are on the shop floor) The shop assistants don't have this as they don't have the radios.

So your argument about profiling would work if those in supermarkets (and other shops) stuck to using the intelligence they gathered to target people, and not randomly following black and mixed ethnicity people around stores.

This random following is racist and no amount of argument about supposed statistics to cover up racial prejudice shows any different.

I often get followed in shops and I'm often picked out by security in airports. I'm white and freckly. There are jobsworths everywhere.

@itslateandiminmypyjamas I don’t want to tell them that stuff at all. I can’t tell them how they feel and I haven’t even said it wasn’t because of race.. I have said we don’t know and I don’t like how it’s automatically assumed because it’s like their automatically guilty and I don’t like that for any race.
The OP asked a question, she didn’t say she definitely knew.
And racism does affect me as a mother of a mixed race child and it does affect me as someone who could be blamed for being racist for watching a mixed race person in a store when I don’t even care for the colour of their skin.
Anyway I’m not going to reply back anymore. You obviously just want to hear from people who think everyone is a racist.

Sometimes people who are not white immediately pull the 'race card' if anything happens to them which is actually quite insulting to white people because it implies we are racist
You are racist. HTH.

I am white and it happens to me ! Why do you automatically think everything is to do with the colour of your skin ? Insinuating that the the store assistant must be racist says more about you than it does about them

You can be white and be the subject of racism. It isn’t just down to the colour of someone’s skin

For anyone who is remotely authentic and genuinely wants to understand this issue more. Can i suggest a book to read and, if you can, listen to? I recently did and it was a game changer for me. As a bi racial person I recognised myself and others in it. My 'light skin' privilege and the blatant and covert racism I have faced was explained in a way which resonated even tho at times it was hard to digest. It was written by a white woman and it addresses white people. It is called White Fragility. Well worth a read/listen.

@Dionn
I thought we weren’t supposed to take lessons on racism from white people because they’ve never experienced it?

I think in this case, yes. Sorry.
My DP gets followed around some shops too but that's because of the way he dresses, not because of skin colour.

YANBU
I am sorry this has happened to you.
Blatant racism whatever other people on here may otherwise think.

My ds 14 was target by a group of black boys yesterday while coming out of a game store. They requested he give them his new games ( bought for his brother before the shop closed)
My dm arrived at the shop just as it was happening.
Do you think he was approached because he was White?.
Or do you think logical that these boys saw a 14 yr old alone, with games and were chancers?...

Not everything is about bloody race.

This thread still stumbling on then. With white people explaining why it’s important their opinions on race are counted. After all white people so rarely set a societal standard. There has been some painful obtuseness in this thread... along with some hateful racism.
I can’t understand the lack of humility from some - your white experiences CAN NEVER BE THE SAME AS A BLACK PERSON’S because HISTORY and SOCIETY and ENDEMIC RACISM. Why don’t you get that?

Not everything is about bloody race.

No, but a hell of a lot of things are.

This thread reminds me of a bunch of men arguing that sexism doesn’t exist