AIBU to think you can hang out without your husband

[Independentlondoner]

NC
So genuinely don’t know if I’m unreasonable in my expectations.
Recently a new neighbour moved in, and her daughter and mine attend the same preschool. Really nice woman/ family, we’ve attended parties at her house and vice versa.
First time she suggested a play date I said yes and suggested the local park- great. Me and my LO leave the house and her, her husband and her daughter are all ready to walk round to the park- it didn’t really cross my mind to bring my husband. It was a nice trip but I felt slightly like an intruder on their family day out.
Next she group messaged me and another mum to a get together at hers- great I could do with more mum friends. Very quickly the third woman mentioned her husbands dietary requirements, another bring your husbands get together.
I love my husband and we do things as a family often, but we have our own friendships- and to be honest my husband and hers are very different and wouldn’t naturally be friends. I also think it hinders our growing friendship.

Fast forward to this week and I’ve asked if her and her daughter would like to come to a day trip to the zoo, she wants to invite her husband. This means two cars, or me sitting in the back of their car like a child.

AIBU In thinking she could dare do something independent from her husband for a couple of hours or am I the strange one?

I admit I find rigid single socialising a little odd

It is perhaps something to think about - how will you cope if you are on your own?

that's the thing, cope. Unless we have to, why do we have to cope? I prefer enjoying what I have for now. Preferring your DH company doesn't mean being useless and completely lost without someone holding your hands.

OneThread, I so agree with you about ‘old’ friends, I am off to meet a school friend today, we met 50 years ago at primary school and are still really good friends even though we no longer live that close to each other. Our husbands and children have met up over the years but what I value is my close friendship with her and having husbands/children tag along when we meet does change the dynamic.
Both my parents (late 80s) still have individual friends from school/uni that they still meet up with, Dad is at a uni reunion this week... it’s quite inspiring that he has kept these friendships up for nearly 70 years.

A lot of men do have ‘men friends’ (agree they are unlikely to call them ‘Daddy’ friends) my DH has friends from scouting days, men he meets at golf, cricket, rugby, , people he has worked with over the years & kept in touch with etc etc.

I think it’s great if you have a balance and some joint friends but my DH and I are quite different personalities and tend to get on with different sorts of people, which has made for interesting situations whenever we have hosted a party and both invited friends .

The thing I don't get is why the husband would want to go if the ops husband isn't going. If I said to mrformer oh, I'm going out with Anne and the kids at the weekend, there's no way in hell he'd want to come along if her husband wasn't going to be there. He'd feel like he was intruding. Fine for couples to socialize but awkward if it's one couple and one individual.

Wow.

I am a SAHM so regularly meet other mums during the week. At the weekends, DH and I will generally go something together with DS, but sometimes he will want to go and do something on his own, or I will, so the other person spends time with DS. Sometimes I will still meet up with other mums and kids without him or other husbands. Sometimes DH and I will get a babysitter and go out together. Other times we will sit in with a takeaway. Other times we will go out with other couples. All fine in my book

We also can and do go out separately at night with our friends for drinks or dinner. If people in relationships can't do that without their other half then, I admit, I find that a bit odd. But each to their own.

Both DH and I work FT, I also have a commute so yeah weekend is family time. With our very close friends we often organise activities like the zoo as a family together.

However I also have lunches / spa days etc in the weekend with my girlfriends who DH doesn't know that well he obviously doesn't tag along, likewise I don't go on his golf trips with the boys.

We try to balance it.

I'm wondering if the neighbour doesn't want the type of friendship that the OP wants and is trying to keep her at arms length but remaining civil for the sake of good neighbourhood relations? Or she is worried that they don't have much in common and fears awkward silences if they are alone all day?

Surely if a friendship is going to happen it can develop naturally over time? Why can't they chat together over coffee while the children play? It's less formal and less pressure. I would be put off if a new accquaintance kept pushing to go on big "dates" together but then I'm quite an introverted person and am quite shy until I know someone well.

I don't think the reluctance to go out without her husband is necessarily a sign that they are co dependent and joined at the hip. I just think the op and the neighbour are very different in their approaches to friendships.

Op are you not a bit wary about this friendship given that you don't really know these people yet and they live next door? What happens if it turns out that you don't really like them but you've really pushed a friendship? That could make for a very awkward atmosphere right on your doorstep. That's always my fear about getting to close to neighbours or making friends on holiday - you can't escape them. I prefer to be a bit more reserved until I know them better. Even then, I would be reluctant to be great friends with a neighbour - what if they are really clingy and want to spend every minute in your pocket? If I were the neighbour here that's the concern that I would have and I'd be wary of rushing into something here that I'd later regret.

Treat it like a relationship and tread more slowly. Maybe a friendship will develop over time. There's no rush is there?

Single sex

Decomposing - it's twice you've mentioned the OP pushing the friendship. Re-read the OP:

" First time she suggested a play date I said yes and suggested the local park- great."

...and...

" Next she group messaged me and another mum to a get together at hers"

I think we can rest assured that the neighbour is at least as keen as the OP to forge a friendship.

Why on earth is the idea that a couple are actual friends and enjoy each other company so shocking?

Come on @that25cUKHeatwaveof2019 - the faux disingenuity doesn't become you.

Clearly not one single person on this thread finds couples who are friends and enjoy each other's company in the least bit shocking.

It's couples who can't do a single thing apart that is outside the norm.

Those are the couples that insist their spouse goes on hen weekends and all women 40ths. Comedy gold!

Op YANBU

If I arrange a trip to a zoo with dc and one of MY friends I don't expect their DP to rock up.

Same with DH if he said 'I'm taking her dc to the park with Bob'

Why on earth would I have to go?

Odd

The not 'her'

or me sitting in the back of their car like a child

Unless you mean you are sitting in an actual booster seat, I don't know how you are like a child if you happen to be in the back seat... Do you suddenly develop an aversion to brocolli and forget how to put lego away as soon as you sit in the back?

I get my think either of you are being unreasonable. They clearly have weekends as time to spend as a family. Nothing wrong with that. You like to get together with friends without your husband. Nothing wrong with that either.

I think you just need to be clearer the next time you invite her to something that husbands are not invited to this one - and assume if she's organising it that husbands are welcome.

I think we can rest assured that the neighbour is at least as keen as the OP to forge a friendship.

But look at what the neighbour is suggesting - a trip to the park and a play date at her house with another mum. It's quite casual and non pressured. I would be comfortable with doing that. Going for a day trip would be too full on for me with someone that I don't really know. I would only do that if there was a 3rd person there to ease the pressure - not necessarily my husband but another friend.

It doesn't matter what's being suggested - park, home, zoo. The neighbour always wants to bring Nigel along.

So kind of negates the point you were trying to make - which was that the neighbour isn't really keen.

I'd feel weird sat in the back with the dc on a trip I'd suggested to the other mum.

With Nigel and Nigella sat in the front.

In fact I wouldn't want to go.

I'm taking dc our next week with a mum from school. Can't imagine for a second she'll bring her DH....

Might check though after reading this as don't know her very well.

I understand many of you enjoy your friendships outside of your DHs and I respect that. I think that's normal for you as individuals. What's normal to me and others as individuals is different. Some people don't want or feel the need for outside single-sex friendships. If you do that's great for you. I personally don't enjoy it. It doesn't bring anything for me.

For the argument what would I do if DH died and I didn't have friends to fall back on, why would I make friends purely for that purpose. That would be superficial of me. I don't enjoy chit chat, I don't enjoy catching up on drama or moaning about DH to people, nor do I want to bore people by gushing about DH. That would leave only "mum friends" which I would only have to fulfill my kids social requirements. That's fine too, lots of people do that, but its not for me. I would think it rude to form friendships for social requirements I don't personally need. If DH is away, which happens believe it or not, I really love my alone time. I can cope and survive on my own without social groups just as I did before meeting DH. I don't have a social quota to meet in order to be happy. If you imagined it like a social meter I had to fill, mine is full all by itself. I never feel lonely.

I tell myself maybe I just haven't found my "tribe" but I have little or nothing in common with anyone else but DH, we were good friends before we started dating and he's the only person I've genuinely had things to talk about. When I used to meet up with old friends it felt forced to me, they were school, college and uni friends and without the course work to talk about anymore we didn't have anything else in common. It became general chit chat, me being an agony aunt for them etc. It just isn't enjoyable to me, I understand others want that. I've relied entirely on myself from a young age, no family, no parents etc, I thrive alone. But when I have a DH I love and genuinely enjoy being with why is it weird to want to spend our time with our kids together?

Are you saying I should force myself to make friends I don't want purely to fit the societal norm of having friends? Not all people feel the same as you do. As I said before, I am 100% fine in not having social groups. It does nothing for me.

That doesn't make me codependant. I can live, breathe and go places without DH, I just enjoy it a hell of a lot more with my best friend with me.

So DH and I both work M-F 9-5. Including our commute, we leave home at 7:30am and get back at 6:30pm. Bed time is 7:30 for DS. We have precious little time together during the week so weekends are about family time. If someone invites DS and I to something (without DH), I'd speak to him first as maybe he was looking forward to spending the day with DS or maybe he was hoping we'd visit X. As we are JOINT parents, we make a JOINT decision.

Why should DH miss out on time with DS and getting to know our child's friends parents just because he has a penis? If anything happened to me I'd be happier knowing that he knew who our child's friends parents were.

*I'd feel weird sat in the back with the dc on a trip I'd suggested to the other mum.

With Nigel and Nigella sat in the front*

In that case, don't suggest a trip assuming you'll get a front seat in someone else's car. Suggest a trip and plan to take your own car.

'but I have little or nothing in common with anyone else but DH,'

I guess it doesn't really apply to you though, as it sounds as though you would never make plans with others that didn't include your DH

I'm guessing if someone asked you and your dc to meet up you'd either decline or tell them that your DH must come.

It doesn't matter what's being suggested - park, home, zoo. The neighbour always wants to bring Nigel along.

Does she? Did she bring him to the meet up with the other mum?

I'm just offering my opinion if how I would feel - I wouldn't want a kind of forced one on one trip with someone that I wasn't yet sure about. I find the way the op is talking about the friendship - wanting alone time to talk about problems, rather than superficial chit chat about the children (their current common ground) a bit OTT really and I would back away from someone who gave me that vibe. Again, that's just me. As I said I wouldn't want friendships with neighbours because I like my space and I would find it suffocating.

'In that case, don't suggest a trip assuming you'll get a front seat in someone else's car. Suggest a trip and plan to take your own car.'

Quite happy to drive and normally do.

But if Nigel wanted to ride shotgun I'd probably suggest just the two of them go, and get the vibe that 'nigella ' are a package....

Does she? Did she bring him to the meet up with the other mum?

Well, yes. It's all there in the OP.

Fine - you wouldn't appreciate the overtures - but I don't get the sense the OP's neighbour is rejecting them at all. Quite the opposite, in fact.