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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Nasty

132 replies

Snooky84 · 02/07/2019 13:40

Aibu to think mumsnet is getting nastier and crueler. When we should be supporting each other or giving well meant advice.
Also what's the worst thing you've ever read on mumsnet?

OP posts:
Bezalelle · 03/07/2019 08:53

Where's all this transphobia??

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 03/07/2019 09:10

Well, it you believe the activists, medicine and dictionary definitions are transphobic. So it's bloody everywhere!

(You have to imagine me doing a Sound of Music twirl, arms outstretched and singing the last sentence)

Sundancer77 · 03/07/2019 09:17

I’ve only been on a few weeks and love it..buuuttt I was completely shocked by some people’s replies and just the pure bluntness and nastiness. Luckily there are lots of lovely, very helpful people too, to hopefully balance it out. Some people are just arseholes!

SolsticeBabyMaybe · 03/07/2019 09:22

Transphobia... but I wouldn't like to give examples cos frankly the worst examples I've seen are too grim to repeat Confused
I try to avoid those threads as feel those posters are often contained in related threads that are very shouty and one sided.

Aside from that, anything in the vein of 'oh are you going to go cry now' just feels like playground bullying to me.

echt · 03/07/2019 09:24

Transphobia... but I wouldn't like to give examples cos frankly the worst examples I've seen are too grim to repeat

How convenient.

PuffSleeves · 03/07/2019 09:24

Gosh, one of the best things about Mn is having an online space where it’s possible to acknowledge that biological sex exists and that hard-won women’s rights which are needed because of biological sex should not be allowed to be eroded because of a vociferous tiny minority TRA who are essentially benefiting from male privilege to marginalise women.

It goes without saying that trans people should also have their own rights and protection, but that should not be to the detriment of women’s rights.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/07/2019 09:26

but I wouldn't like to give examples cos frankly the worst examples I've seen are too grim to repeat

But if you don't give exapples how can anyone know if you are being reasonable?

If "Women do not have penises" is an example I reserve the right to think you haven't though it through.

anything in the vein of 'oh are you going to go cry now' just feels like playground bullying to me. I must be missing posts like that... I have seen some really unpleasant responses but not like that!

SushiForAmateurs · 03/07/2019 09:27

I absolutely freaking love MN for its LTB mentality, and for being virtually the only place that exposes TRAs for being the blatant emperor's new clothes that they are.

XXVaginaAndAUterus · 03/07/2019 09:38

Riiight. Okay. Page 1 I thought this was just your average goady post. I see it still is goady, just that type of goady.

@VivienneHolt

I think they is the best I can do to be polite and respectful about a person who is aggressive, male by birth and trying to erode my rights.

the insistence that there is an irrefutable ‘biological reality’ that penis = male, despite the fact that there is pretty solid consensus in the scientific community that your genitals do not determine your gender, and the fact that there is food evidence that your gender is biologically determined even when it does not correspond with your sex

I'm a science geek - I would genuinely lobe to be linked to some papers on this as I have not come across them. Please can you do so?

the constant references to Karen White as though she’s remotely representative of trans people, and despite the fact that trans rights groups have unequivocally criticised the decision to place her in a women’s prison given her offending history etc.

And yet there are many TRAs on twitter shouting mysogynistic hate against women who are trying to have a calm debate.

the tedious repetition of the question ‘please explain how a person can change sex’ which is persistently whipped out as though it’s an ace card that was hidden up a sleeve, despite the fact that it is repeated ad nauseam that being transgender isn’t about changing sex, that sex and gender are not the same thing, that your sex does not determine your gender.

Actually I've seen very little acknowledgement that sex is not the same as gender from that side of the debate. It's good to know it's acknowledged at times.

the attempts to frame transphobia as concern for or a desire to protect lesbians, despite the fact that lesbians have been neglected, oppressed, abused and belittled for decades without anyone giving much of a shit about them. Those who only started caring about lesbians when they realised it was an opportunity to dress up their transphobia in an allegedly acceptable veneer are concern-trolls.

So lesbians rights and voices isn't a concern feminism board should discuss?

Mumsnet has adopted a very narrow definition of transphobia which essentially only challenges posts containing actual slurs. I appreciate that they’re trying to find a balance which still allows for free expression, and that isn’t an easy task. But it has had the unfortunate side effect of emboldening transphobes, because now people can say ‘mumsnet deletes transphobic posts!’ and perpetuate the fantasy that anything not deleted by mumsnet is totally legitimate and inoffensive. That position ignores the true atmosphere on this site, which is one of hostility, misinformation, pseudo-science, prejudice and fear.

There is currently outrage that mumsnet deleted a (opposite of transphobe - I don't know what to call that - pro-trans?) Post. By women who are "transphobes" by your definition.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 03/07/2019 09:39

I have seen some really unpleasant responses but not like that

Absolutely !

I do report and I’d definitely report that!

CitadelsofScience · 03/07/2019 09:46

Are there two parallel versions of my running? I don't see any transphobia so I'm wondering if all the people claiming it's rife are in a different version to the one I'm using, and in some kind of Dr Whoish way, they've converged on this post?

DerelictWreck · 03/07/2019 09:47

I have found the trans/feminism posts helpful and informative. Until joining here I’d kind of blithely accepted the trans narrative “TWAW”, “born in the wrong body”, the “cis” prefix without even thinking about it and the posts have really helped me dismantle all that.

Me too. The posters who say Mumsnet is transphobic are usually the ones who don't engage with the topic or take time to explore the nuance.

I for one believe that it's possible to be a feminine man or a masculine woman, and that doesn't mean they've magically changed sex. I believe that boys who like dresses are still boys and girls with short hair are still girls. And that telling them they've been born in the wrong body and putting them on hormones which stunt fertility is damaging and abusive. I still believe that transpeople deserve every human right and respect, I just don't believe that that trumps the safety for women.

How anyone can see that as a message of hate is beyond me?

UrsulaPandress · 03/07/2019 09:47

Join me in my parallel universe. It's lovely.

WhenISnappedAndFarted · 03/07/2019 09:58

@CitadelsofScience same here. I see a lot of people saying MN is transphobic however I've only seen one or two comment that I thought were.

I think a lot of people are blunt on here but sometimes that is needed. I have seen some threads where I've felt sorry for the OP but a lot of the time when people pile in, I don't think it's generally nasty, there's just a lot of people with the same opinion that isn't the same as the OP.

You do get one or two horrible comments on a thread but they're always removed quickly by MN and you're going to get that when you've got millions of users.

Ticklingcheese · 03/07/2019 09:59

It always surprises me how many posters make the effort to post on threads telling op it is boring, not new, not interesting etc.

If you don't like the topic, surely you don't read it?

S1naidSucks · 03/07/2019 10:04

Wow! How amazing that the OP asks about the worst thing ever on Mumsnet and the first few people to post, ALL talk about the non existent transphobia. It’s almost like someone blew a whistle and lots of people with hurty feelings turned up to talk about the same ‘issue’. Hmm

It’s funny that so many people hate mumsnet, yet persist on posting on it. 🤷🏻‍♀️ It also strikes me as odd, that they bring up the very subject that they know will inevitably cause a heated discussion, but I’m sure that’s just a coincidence.

echt · 03/07/2019 10:07

It always surprises me how many posters make the effort to post on threads telling op it is boring, not new, not interesting etc

In this particular instance I would imagine because posters see the fucking boring incursions of TRAs yet again.

But then you know that.

nelsonmuntzslingshot · 03/07/2019 10:13

What I find weird is how some posters will follow an OP they disagree with around the boards to harass them or stalk through the OP's entire posting history to point out discrepancies or discredit them. I have genuinely never seen that on any other forum

HopeMumsnet · 03/07/2019 10:15

Hi all,
As we always respond to these threads, we're only ever as good as the reports we're getting in. We completely rely on MNers new and old to tell us when they see posts that break our guidelines and more recent trans guidelines and we are sincerely grateful to those who do.
Peace and love and all that, gang, keep reporting and we'll keep applying the guidelines!

HopeMumsnet · 03/07/2019 10:18

@nelsonmuntzslingshot

What I find weird is how some posters will follow an OP they disagree with around the boards to harass them or stalk through the OP's entire posting history to point out discrepancies or discredit them. I have genuinely never seen that on any other forum

That's the sort of thing we'd take a dim view of, generally, so please report and we can take a look.

mabelmylove · 03/07/2019 10:19

@HopeMumsnet Why is it that it is an option to view someone’s posting history if it is against the rules to comment on it?

echt · 03/07/2019 10:22

mabel I think it's when it becomes a pattern of scrutiny by a poster. OTOH, some posters put up contradictory info on the same subject in previous threads/posts, so are reasonably questioned.

WorraLiberty · 03/07/2019 10:24

"I have genuinely never seen that on any other forum".

Really? How many other forums do you use?

Mumsnet is the only forum I've ever come across where posters can actually change their names, thus hiding their posting history.

This (imo) is what leads to so many ridiculously unbelievable threads and bun fights, because posters can literally be goady fuckers in one NN and then slip back into another NN where everyone things "Aww what a lovely person".

As long as they stick within talk guidelines they'll get away with it time and again.

JacquesHammer · 03/07/2019 10:24

@HopeMumsnet

So this thread is acceptable, and yet the one that was removed yesterday - despite countless requests to keep it up and just delete the few “goady” comments isn’t?

Good to see consistency of moderation.

echt · 03/07/2019 10:24

What I find weird is how some posters will follow an OP they disagree with around the boards to harass them or stalk through the OP's entire posting history to point out discrepancies or discredit them

Never seen this. If you think this is an issue, you can report it.