When finances change....

[Burrden]

My DH has been made redundant recently. He was earning £200k and we had a fantastic lifestyle - private school for the 2 DC, holidays etc. We own our house outright and have some savings, plus his pay off. I work PT and earn £30k which covers our day to day living expenses (but not school fees or luxuries).
We can continue living our current lifestyle for 2/3 years without DH needing to work.

As a result of the change to our finances I have cut back in certain areas (I did this when we found out that his job was at risk at the beginning of the year) - basically stuck to a budget so i knew we could live on my salary. I have requested additional hours at work but will need to wait until a role comes up - I would earn £50k full time so still not enough to cover school fees but if we don't dip into our savings now we can afford to keep them there until 11 without DH needing to work.

However, DH refuses to cut back AT ALL. Each morning he trots off to a chichi cafe for coffee and breakfast, with his newspaper then goes off to the gym/ music lessons/ tennis/ golf - all things he never had time for when working. I kind of think this is fine for this summer but then he really will need to sit down and face reality. He has worked solidly for 20 years in demanding, long hour jobs, I do not begrudge him time off but he is burning through the same amount of money (if not more) than before.
Meanwhile I make packed lunches, have dropped my own gym membership, the cleaner (he does do some cleaning but it is erratic - some weeks he does none and the next he blitzes the whole house) and other non essential things.
The DC break up from school this week and he keeps saying how great it is that we won't need to pay for holiday childcare (which saves about £1k) but in the next breath he spends £5k on a two week holiday for him and the DC.... we had a week booked already but in Devon and not extravagant.

I guess the issue is that we have never had to worry about money before and now it is an issue we don't seem to be on the same page. If I try to discuss it I get accused of only being with him for his money, which is not at all true (we met through work, I earned the same as him 15yrs ago but - kids, his career took off and so his job took priority).

He is looking for another job but wants to take the time to look for another type of role - I don't actually know what that is! - and I have no problem with him taking time off/ retraining/ whatever as long as he has a plan of sorts and stops spending so much money.

I just feel when we speak it all comes out wrong/ he twists it into me being money grabbing. He also keeps going on about how I have worked PT for the last 8 years and it's about time I went back FT (my youngest only started school last September!) but it isn't that easy to just demand FT hours. I am also now looking for roles in London which are more highly paid than locally (but I wasn't able to do before because of the commute and getting back in time for the DC) - I have no problem working - but if he does get a job back in his old industry he will assume it all goes back to me doing everything Monday - Friday and I won't be able to manage that with a 1hr+ commute. Even so I would not be on £200k for many years (if ever!).

AIBU to want him to cut back (as I have) and make a plan for the future?

You need to put you pay into a separate account he can't access, and live off your savings.
This way you know if he keeps spending it all you can still pay the bills

@Burrden That's terrible OP, he's not getting it at all.

Have you thought about going to counselling with him? It sounds like you've done all you can without professional help.

£2k spending money is insane. What is he planning to spend it on?!

It would drive me mad if my husband was acting so recklessly with our money.

My only other suggestion would be to take the savings he is drawing on (assuming it's cash sitting in the bank?) and purchase large parcels of shares. At least then the money is harder to access and the £ figure on the bank statement will be more noticeably diminishing when his spending goes unchecked. When there is a large sum it can be hard for people with poor money skills to fathom that a £20 breakfast will make any difference to their wealth, even when it is repeated every day. If you take away the big pile of easily accessible money and leave a sensible amount sitting in cash, he might realise that those £20 breakfasts and £2k spending monies add up!

The holiday was booked via the tennis club that we all go to. We have been before but we usually go full board. Because he booked so late the cost was higher and so he decided to book B&B only; he will need to pay for lunch and dinner for the 3 of them. If he eats in the resort it will cost at least £100 a day, I'm sure. Plus a week's tennis coaching for the two of them will be £300 (so £600 if they do both weeks)...

I have always dealt with our money - embarrassingly- he has always acted this way and I have enabled it. It has always been me that budgeted to enable him to spend willy- nilly but it was fine when he earned enough that it didn't impact me and the DC. He spent less when he worked.

I do think there is an element of keeping up with the Joneses plus complete denial that he may not get a job at the same seniority/ pay. He refuses to let me talk to anyone about it. I doubt he would go to counselling.
I have no one I can talk to about it, that's why I ramble on here.

I'm so sorry, op, the way he's treating you is disgusting. Alsohuman's categorisation of his responses to you as a mindfuck was spot on. That's why you're tying yourself in knots.

I still can't get over his response to your interview being a disappointment was happiness. What kind of shit response is that from somebody who is meant to be your life partner?

It's not on that he tried to punish you for having a tiny social life. Why is it that you have so few social encounters outside of work/family?

I can't see him agreeing to counselling with you. But would you consider going on your own? It might help you to have some space to talk to somebody and get your own mind clear without being called a nag or getting manipulative responses to your perfectly reasonable behaviour.

His responses to you throughout this have been increasingly manipulative and transparently so, not only that but the constant shifting of goalposts, pretending to agree things then discarding them... I appreciate when you're in the midst of it and it's happening to you it's harder to see, especially when he succeeds in setting off guilt and panic and self-blame in you, but he's out of order here. You don't behave like this towards someone you love, you just don't.

X post.

Keep rambling on here (although I wouldn't call it rambling - you're clear and articulate in describing what's going on and your concerns).

Would you consider counselling for yourself? Does your workplace have an Employee Assistance Programme you could access?

You sound really isolated, reducing that will help.

It sounds like he will be burning through your entire savings before returning to work. An interesting choice. Is he the type to be quite reckless, sabotaging?

You say you have put the school fees aside.

I would also be putting around £5 k aside for emergencies.

Are you able to pay more into your pensions, investments? Tie the money up that way.

I would also not cut back on cleaners etc in the meantime. Do not make things harder for yourself by keeping to a budget while he is completely disregarding your opinions on the family finances. I would actually take some unpaid leave yourself, it does sound like you will need a break to prepare for the year ahead.

So sorry op. I would be worried and angry too. How many jobs has he applied for since January? You mentioned two. Are there more?

Your DH sounds really hard to live with. I am in a vaguely similar position to you at the moment, in that DH is currently at home between jobs, and I am finding it a struggle, despite the fact that he is doing most of the school runs/childcare, and a fair bit around the house.

In your shoes I'd be incredibly resentful of being left to do it all, while he swans around at the gym etc, and how dare he tell you not to go out with your friends! I honestly could not live with his attitude. I think you are showing incredible restraint.

Some specific things:
You can cancel a season ticket and get a refund on the unused portion. It would make sense to do this.

The networking is real for jobs at that level, they don't tend to come out of applications with no prior discussion. So there's little point in him applying for stuff (assuming he wants to go back to something senior) but there is a lot of value in him getting out there and speaking to people. He has to be clear what he wants though and it sounds like he isn't currently.

He has had one lot of formal interviews so far - three rounds and it was looking so promising but because of the seniority of the job it had to be signed off by the powers that be and they declared a hiring freeze until 2020. He has a first interview with another company this week - if that goes well he will have at least another two rounds before any job would be offered.
The rest have been casual chats with people - quite senior people- which have yet to come of anything but it seems he is quite well liked. As PPs have said, the jobs he is looking for aren't advertised in the newspaper.
I understand the need to network, I don't think I am being too demanding. I never ask him to do drop off/ collection etc but as it is the summer holidays now I did (naively) think he could step up a bit now especially as it costs £75 per day for holiday club.

I guess I just need to know how long he intends to keep going like this. When do you call it quits and look for something else? It feels like forever!

If he knew since Jan that he would need to find work, that's 6 months. I remember being told it takes on average 3 months to find a specialised professional job. 1 serious possibility + 1 nibble in 6 months doesn't sound like there is a high demand for whatever he does.

I know you say he won't go to relationship counselling or just general counselling- but have you looked into career counselling or coaching? Perhaps he needs a neutral third party to tell him bluntly what's going on in the market and what kind of jobs he should
be aiming for.

You said he isn't sure what he wants to do. Is he realistic that a change of career or industry might mean a significant paycut? Even if he gets a job his lifestyle might have to change. Again, a career counsellor or coach would be able to spell that out for him.

Also- How strategic is this 'networking'? Sitting in a cafe with a newspaper or relaxing about in a tennis resort with no particular target in mind doesn't seem very strategic. Is he hoping Warren Buffet will walk by the cafe and stop in to compliment his bagel? I have to do a lot of professional networking, but because I have a family that I'd rather be spending time with I am incredibly strategic about it. I choose what to attend based on particular people and I go there with particular goals in mind. I don't just show up in a place important people might be and swan around hoping for results. If he is taking time away to contributing to the house the should be able to articulate what he is hoping to achieve with his time.

at warren buffet

He meets a lot of people for coffee, chats, lunches and has had a few leads for jobs which just seem to go nowhere. We are open with our emails/ messages etc so I do see what he is doing. I think it is just genuinely a bad time... he did take a little while off for holidays back in April and I don't blame him at all for that. He was let go with three others - one has a job in a similar role, another has gone off travelling and the third has become a "consultant" which may/ may not mean the same thing as what DH is doing.
I do worry about his state of mind and how this has affected him. He doesn't always seem to be the same person. Bitter, I guess.

Would he think about consultancy roles? Obviously more tenuous, but it’s getting in the door.

Consultancy might be a sensible short term possibility.
It is DH's plan B if he gets made redundant.
Does your DH have the right links for this?
In terms of finances I second making sure you have enough to cover emergencies as well as school fees. If DH isn't going to be sensible at all then you are going to have to be sensible for both of you.

The way we have always organised our finances is that everything goes into the joint account, all bills come out, money put into savings etc. DH never ever looks at the joint account - he puts everything on a credit card (for the air miles) and I clear the bill. He may take £50 or so for cash if he needs it. He has never questioned my spending nor I his, until now. This is what we have done for 10yrs.
All the savings are in my name.

So I'm assuming that that's every month your savings are been depleted?
I would do a spread sheet every week with a monthly round up and let him see exactly how much is spent on what, what's coming in and how much of your savings is eaten into.

His lack of respect and responsibility to family life and commitments are disgusting. Does he think he's too good to contribute to the basic running of your home and minding of his own children.

Yes, money is going out of our savings each month. I earn enough for the usual household bills and our food but not his spending, clothes, holidays, school fees etc. We are currently living off his redundancy money, I put this money into a joint savings account so that he could see what we had left and have some input into our finances but he doesn't seem to care. I have always looked after our money - I love a spreadsheet! I have one showing when funds will run out with different spending levels, he looks at it but continues regardless. His credit card is in my name - I sometimes think I might reduce the credit limit to prevent him from going too crazy but I think that crosses a line.

I don't think it is entirely fair to say he doesn't contribute to the running of the home or childcare - he does do some things - but it is all on his terms. He has his interview today and so he has done nothing for the past two days as he has been doing reading/ research but then tomorrow he might decide to clear the loft out
But no, I am still the default parent. I keep the every day stuff going. I started a cleaning routine when we got rid of the cleaner - it is on the blackboard in the kitchen, I encourage the DC to help with it, but he would never look at it and think "oh, I will clean the bathroom today!" If I ask him to do something - like hoover the stairs - he will do everything but that. He cannot take being "told" what to do.

Obviously I will be the one packing for the DC for holiday and getting all the sun cream etc.

Please keep your fingers crossed that today's interview goes well... I need him back at work

Obviously I will be the one packing for the DC for holiday and getting all the sun cream etc.

Don’t! Have a discussion with him about what they need and have a discussion with the DC about what to pack. But be clear you’re not responsible for this holiday - he is - so he needs to step up.

He is sounding worse and worse every time you post :-(

Please please please keep your salary separate into a new and secretly bank account and do what he is doing and use the savings to pay bills and day to day living costs.

Oh my god Burrden I know all about the issue around being told what to do. I realised a little while ago that if I ask him to do a small thing like close a window or even come and eat dinner he leaves a delay so it’s on his terms. I spoke to him about it after he was describing an incident at work that he was angry about, and I pointed out that he just doesn’t like being told what to do, even if it’s a perfectly reasonable thing that benefits him as well.
He thought about it and realised it was a big problem, and has taken it on board. It’s not completely solved, but at least he’s aware of the behaviour.

The posters advising the OP to leave it to her DH to sort out the packing for the hol, I would bet on him just buying the things they forget when they get there.
Good idea to get the DC’s to start getting their stuff together though.

Why on earth is he spending on your credit card and doesn't he have his own?

Although I can see the advantage that you know what he is spending and that it is being paid off each month rather than racking up interest and going over the limit (curious as to the average monthly spend for all those cafe breakfasts and driving range sessions).

I would say don't get involved in the packing, but sadly agree that is just likely to lead to him not taking necessary things like suncream and buying it all abroad, where it is usually much more expensive.

I would bet on him just buying the things they forget when they get there.

Yes, probably. But if he has to go ‘short’ in his £2,000 spending money then... oh well?

I understand that probably what would happen is he spends extra, but if OP keeps enabling this default parent thing, even to the extent that he is the one taking them away and she’ll have to pack, he’ll never ever step up. Learning through doing!

OP, if you control the finances, I'd take him at face value when he next makes noises about 'agreeing' to the budget and start putting structures in place.

Get a new set of credit cards that reflect the new budget (which he says he agreed to, yes? He just doesn't keep his word). Cut up all the old ones. Get him a 'personal / discretionary spending' card with a set limit. This is the card he can use for networking, gym, lunches, breakfasts, music classes etc. It will probably all be spent but at least it quarantines the amount that's being frittered away.

Get yourself a 'personal/discretionary spending' card as well. With an equal limit, because you're equals, aren't you?

You're not babying or controlling him if you both agree on what this personal/discretionary spend budget should be.

Then have a family expenses debit or credit card on which you put necessities and school fees- nothing else.

If you have savings sitting in a bank account- invest some of them. Put them out of reach.