Harry and Meghan-part 2

[BertrandRussell]

Following on from this -it was just getting interesting. Someone posted about how Meghan called herself a feminist but hadn’t earned the title. I was interested to know how you earned the title- but the thread ended.

Harry is a Duke and when his father ascends the throne the Sussex children will automatically be Princes and Princesses.

Unless they refuse. And given they’ve already declined to use the courtesy Earldom, I’d say that’s reasonably likely.

Anne refused any titles for her children, for clarity. They don’t go by Lord/Lady even. Which is exactly the situation with Archie now.

It’s ok mauritius I totally get it. You wanted photos coming in and/or out of the church. We’ve all been let down badly by their absence

The press like to build her up / knock her down, over and over, because that’s what sells papers etc. Disturbingly similar to how they treated Diana, must bring back a lot of painful memories for Harry.

The title, or lack of it, makes no difference to the reality of who Archie is. Not accepting a title at this stage is a useful strategy for maintaining the lie that he is a private citizen. It's just a tool for his parents to better control the narrative. When the Queen dies, Archie will be grandson of the king, title or not. I would be surprised if the title of Prince was turned down.

Believing that H&M ought to have been more forthcoming wrt photos and information is not 'whinging'. So needlessly rude, Laurie.

Maybe someone sent them a link to this thread and they took the hint

Wanting photos of them arriving and the names of a group of strangers who will be godparents is pretty tragic.

If only they'd supplied those details - it makes having a royal family worthwhile.

Meant to add, everyone knows that Zara Tindall is the grandchild of the queen. She still has all the contacts and advantages of that connection but lack of official title means she gets to give the impression of being an entirely private citizen. But I'm sure that who her family are has aided her significantly.

Absolutely. I can’t understand what difference they think the lack of title makes to anything. Zara spends her life riding horses and doing photo shoots and living on her princess mother’s estate.

Just put there making her way in the world like the rest of us?

On the subject of things being "pretty tragic", just what's going on in the minds of the superfans like John Loughrey and Anne Daley, seen here in Windsor? (After the obligatory ad)

www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1150040/archie-christening-pictures-meghan-markle-windsor-royal-fans

I don’t think Zara’s a particularly good example as her sport has cast her into the public eye.

However the other untitled (or very much lesser titled) grandchildren of the Queen (Peter Philips, Louise Windsor and cant even think of his name Windsor) have much lower profiles than princesses B&E.

Their PR team have been poor. They're much more focused on meeting the needs of the American celeb media circuit than the expectations of the British royalty media. It's unfortunate but it's also unlikely to change.

She still has all the contacts and advantages of that connection but lack of official title means she gets to give the impression of being an entirely private citizen.
Exactly it, archie won’t be a private citizen as much as they want it.

Their PR team have been poor. They're much more focused on meeting the needs of the American celeb media circuit than the expectations of the British royalty media.

Agree with this. It feels very much like they employed a PR team who are more in tune with America and celebrity appetites than the British public.

Hopefully mistakes will be acknowledged and appropriate adjustments made to satisfy all.

Honestly. Who’d want to marry into royalty? What a nightmare!

The Royal family won't be the same as now when the w
Queen dies though. Archie will be the equivalent of Princess Margaret s kids when William is king and will be the Kings cousin after tha t. Who will be give a stuff what he does then? A much slimmed down monarchy will mean he will have to go his own way.I very much doubt a younger generation are going to be standing outside churches and hospitals like idiots for days on end and complaining that they can't go to the christening of a baby they don't know.

Laurie I take your point about lesser royals' smaller profiles, but it didn't stand in the way of Peter Phillips grasping a nice little earner from the Patrons Lunch in 2017

Interesting, too, that this was never put out to tender and that the amount raised for charity was a mere half of that paid to Mr Phillips

I’m not arguing that non titled/lesser titled royals don’t benefit from their position.

I’m arguing that they’re lower profile (in the main) than those with higher ranking titles and get a lot less media exposure or interest.

Peter Philips has a fairly ‘regular’ job (though I agree it would be foolish to believe he got there on pure merit) and we don’t hear a peep from him.

If H&M were as determined to milk the royal gravy train for all its worth as people say they are, I don’t think they would have turned down the Earldom for Archie.

I think they would have gone for the B&E option (think of Eugenies rather flashy wedding) rather than the Peter Philips option.

Surely if they were on the royal gravy train like many here seem to believe, they’d have pushed for the title of Prince, just like B&E got. And lobbied for working royal status.

They can't. B&E are grandchildren of the sovereign. Archie is a great-grandchild.

Charlotte & Louis only got titles because of a dispensation, should have just been George as he's in direct line.

So for clarification, there was an earldom he could have had that they declined.

The Earl of Dumbarton, I think. Goes well with Archie. A bit Balamory, maybe...

However the other untitled (or very much lesser titled) grandchildren of the Queen (Peter Philips, Louise Windsor and cant even think of his name Windsor) have much lower profiles than princesses B&E.

Mainly because of their parents' wishes.

there was an earldom he could have had that they declined

Just out of interest, do we know for a fact that they themselves declined it? I can't find anything online except speculation about what he'd be called and comments about him not having a title, but perhaps someone else has seen something?

So under current peerage rules, Archie should be referred to as "Archie, Earl of Dumbarton", as the eldest son of The Duke of Sussex. The rules are that the eldest son of a peer normally uses their father's secondary title (in this case Earl of Dumbarton) as a "courtesy title". If Harry hadn't received a Dukedom, then, as a great grandchild of the Queen, Archie would have been known as "Lord Archie Mountbatten-Windsor" under the 1917 Letters Patent that set out who is entitled to an HRH title. Instead, Harry and Meghan have chosen not to use either of these titles. We've not been told that they have officially declined it, I'm not sure that this is even a possibility under current rules, but they've certainly chosen for Archie not to be known by these titles. I agree that this points to Archie not being known as HRH Prince Archie when Prince Charles succeeds to the throne.

Whether they use a title or not though, their intrinsic position remains the same. Prince Edward's children (Louise and James?) are still minors so their profile is lower than it might otherwise be if they were adults, but no doubt they are and will continue to enjoy the benefits of being the children of a prince. Also, their parents aren't a glamorous actress and a prince held in public affection (due to being Princess Diana's child), so interest will always be lower than for Archie.
Not using a title for Archie at present suits H&M but it doesn't take anything meaningful away from him.

I think B & E have higher profiles because their parents were always in the papers for their very public misbehaviour, Prince Andrew wants them to be given lots of attention and the press (rather nastily) like to compare them to the prettier (and better dressed) Kate and Meghan.
They don't help themselves by giving interviews to Vogue and talking about the struggles of bring princesses.