Harry and Meghan-part 2

[BertrandRussell]

Following on from this -it was just getting interesting. Someone posted about how Meghan called herself a feminist but hadn’t earned the title. I was interested to know how you earned the title- but the thread ended.

the posters who continually criticise MM for trivial reasons such as the position of a clearly visible babies face will never admit their true reasons for disliking her.
Oh don’t be ridiculous, It’s perfectly understandable that people expect to see more than a glimpse of part of a face. If I remember rightly it was Harry holding the baby, people were criticising him for that not Meghan, it certainly wasn’t clearly visible, the reporter had to actually say, we can’t really see him and Harry still didn’t let anyone see the full face, so what you’ve said doesn’t make sense.

Ghanagirl the way you defend MM seems to be based on one thing only, the colour of her skin. You imply that every single criticism can’t be for any other reason. It’s pathetic. I actually feel sorry for her that everything about her is based on her race....because of people like you. It’s not fair on her. Stop with the paranoia, it’s tiresome.

Anyway, @MauritiusNext could you explain how Harry got the press conference he did on the day Archie was born so wrong?

It wasn't a press conference - it was a one to one with a pre-selected interviewer and photographer. I thought it was really nice - but it was in no way a press conference to which all members of the media were invited.

@dreamyspires
Prince Harry’s first statement when they were dating was clear that she had been racially abused in the media.
”because of people like you. It’s not fair on her. Stop with the paranoia, it’s tiresome.”
Your being ridiculous if you think I’m the problem.
It’s so easy to blame minorities for every problem it’s not new, but blaming is for racism is certainly novel.

Ghanagirl It IS tiresome when it’s assumed that it’s the only reason she’s disliked. Half the time when I read about her I actually only remember she’s of mixed race when someone mentions it. She doesn’t look any different to loads of women who aren’t of mixed race. If she gets attacked for her race then that is disgusting, but imo I don’t think the majority of people are racist, and their opinions are formed for other reasons. Catherine used to get criticised a lot for various reasons. It’s natural, the royal family are always going to be slated. I for one would rather people have a go at the whole damn lot of them, I find the whole concept immoral and obscene. It’s not Meghan that’s the problem, it’s the whole lot.

But Meghan and Harry have put themselves in the spotlight over the last two years or so. I don’t uunderstand why he doesn’t get more flak, probably because he’s ROYAL, and he’s gets excused. That’s royalists for you, not necessarily racist though. I reserve my pity for hardworking mothers who struggle to run a home and go out to work, with nothing to show for it,not any of the super privileged elite who really don’t give a shit about us.

Btw ghanagirl I wasn’t blaming you for racism at all, when I said because of people like you, it’s clear that I meant Meghan can’t be discussed without having her race brought into it, because of people like you. How did that mean I was blaming you for racism?

But Meghan and Harry have put themselves in the spotlight over the last two years or so. I don’t uunderstand why he doesn’t get more flak, probably because he’s ROYAL, and he’s gets excused

We’ve watched Harry grow up and therefore feel like we “know” him. He’s made some horrendous mistakes in the past but he seems to hold a special place in the nation’s heart because of his his cheeky chappy persona and you would have had to have a heart of stone not to be moved by the images of the young barely teenage Harry walking behind his mother’s coffin.

I think part of the dislike of Meghan is because he seems to have lost his fun loving side, and people blame her influence. Of course it could have nothing at all to do with the fact that he’s now a man in his mid thirties....

I don’t think it’s so much racism as it is misogyny.

I wonder if Harry was a princess Harriette and married someone who we “dont Know” called Nathan, whether we will treat Nathan with as much suspicion and scrutany because we don’t know enough about him to make sure he falls in line.

It’s always women who are expected to fall in line with the in laws and all that crap isn’t it.

And perhaps her background does contribute to the fact that the British public are “unfamiliar” and it might be exaggerating that phenomena into lunacy.

Her race and background is definately disadvantaging her and so I do understand why some see it as a racial issue... I did for a while too

It’s also partly an issue of a power dynamic isn’t it? We feel Meghan is too set in her ways to be moulded into the kind of princess we expect..

We aren’t advanced yes enough yet to

Sorry I posted too soon.

I think we as a society aren’t advanced yet enough, to understand that is marriage is an equal partnership, that this means each party bring their background into the relationship and mould into each other and become a seperate unit as such... that a difference in background is an opportunity for the royal family to reform and expand just like its an opportunity for Meghan to learn.

So in essense to answer the original question of the post, I think Meghan is being a good feminist because she knows her worth.

The fact she didn’t mould herself into the public expectation of a princess and instead followed her protective maternal instinct in not wanting to put her baby out there, despite pressure from the royal family- is a feminist statement.

The fact Harry has changed into a new man just like how she changed into a new woman is a feminist statement.

The fact she isn’t gushing over the royals trying to tiptoe and please like a desperate daughter in law is a feminist statement.

She is a feminist as a person and right now her job isn’t to be an activist but to be a mother and a wife who is figuring it out through the pressures of society and high profile marriage.. but it’s enough that she is staying true to herself to make feminism happy I believe.

And the irony is that we are using misogynistic standards to judge whether she is good enough of a feminist, only as a way to tear her down, as true misogynists do.

a difference in background is an opportunity for the royal family to reform and expand just like its an opportunity for Meghan to learn

With apologies for quoting this bit in isolation, I agree with you in principle but doubt that a family used to having things exactly their way would see it quite like this (though they might claim to as a bit of PR)

Whatever the merits or faults of those concerned, the senior RF family members have chewed up and spat out spouse after spouse; even in these days of common divorce their record's disastrous, and the "breaths of fresh air" have probably hit the buffers faster than most

Of course I could be wrong and this latest recruit might be the exception - but I wouldn't want to bet on it

oh ghanagirl you're back. Please could you justify why you called me a 'racist arsehole' on the last thread? TIA.

(just ftr, I said I thought Meghan was one of those people who 'cant keep staff', nothing to do with the colour of her skin)

I haven't seen evidence of Meghan and Harry having contempt for the media, nor heard many people speak against Meghan. She seems to be generally well regarded and certainly hasn't done anything wrong so far.

The media are an absolute pain.

There isn’t any evidence for M&H doing anything wrong that everyone else in the front line RF doesn’t do too. An expensive house refurbishment- so did the Cambridges. Posh frocks. Ditto DofC. Etcetera. What Meghan does do, which is not acceptable in women and block women in particular, is be confident and articulate and appear to have a mind of her own. On another thread, she was criticised because at that Fab4 interview, when asked specifically what she hoped her focus would be, she said women and girl’s education.. Rather than casting her eyes down properly and saying she would be guided by the others. She’s a 37 year old woman. People want fluttery eyelashed ingenues. Like Diana and like how the DofC was when she first hove into view.
And it is ridiculous to say that race doesn’t enter into it. Of course it does. There is a lot of racism I. This country. Why would we make an exception for her?

I struggle with whether racism is the right word or not.

I think it's more precisely about feelings of white entitlement to top dog status. Which when you put it like that obviously is racism, but its much subtler than an open expression of racism and I see how people who feel this way definitely don't recognise it as racism in themselves.

It's also probably working at a mostly subconscious level.

And people always say it's not just Meghan, they dislike all the royals, they hate other celebs too, oh yeah where are the threads for those people? Not here, that's for sure.

Exactly this

@LaurieMarlow-that sums it up perfectly. We are OK with people acting entitled if we think they are the sort of people who are allowed to be entitled. Or who we think have served a proper apprenticeship. DofC sure as hell served an apprenticeship!

Yeah it's all about non royalty marrying into royalty, how dare they. Don't agree it's to do with race all the time. Absolutely nothing worse than being told you're being racist when you're not though....and nonsense about people hating all royals, this thread is about the royals who are most prominent currently, that happens to be H& M. At the moment deciding they want all the trappings of royalty, but absolute privacy too. Damn right attentions on them.

“At the moment deciding they want all the trappings of royalty, but absolute privacy too”
in what way do they want absolute privacy? How has this want manifested itself?

When you're in the royal family you have to expect you can't have it all your own way. Absolute no need to have a private christening,no photos apart from a hand or a foot of new baby. Odd but whatever. it's understandable for some new parents to be secretive about their baby, but with those two they've enjoyed the public's attention all through the pregnancy, constant hand on the bump etc etc, and yes it was odd, but huge secrecy now.

Not wanting to share their joy of the baby is not what the taxpaying public expect from a royal couple. I'm sure the royalists don't expect too much but so far there's been practically nothing. They take millions of taxpayers money, they can't have it all ways.

So THATS how it's manifested itself Bertrand Russell. Surprised anyone would ask that, most people remark on it. Anyway I'll leave you to it, better things to do with my time than argue with someone who feels the need to defend the rich and privileged.

I don’t want to defend the rich and famous. I would cheer the demolition of the Monarchy. I want to defend a person being unjustly attacked.

Christenings are always private. There will, I am sure be Christening pictures released. So far there have been 4 pictures of Archie- including one with the Queen in it. A charming press interview/conference/call/whatever with Harry. So actually more “stuff” than the Cambridges.
And their house didn’t cost any more than the Cambridges.

Cambridge’s spent 4 million doing up their KP apartment. For context.