AIBU - What would you have done?

[TheQueensCorgi]

Name changed. Meeting at work (large company, very big on rights for all) and at the end we shook hands with others. I was the only woman in the room and when I got to a man (not white), I put out my hand and he said ‘Sorry I don’t shake hands with women’, and walked off.

I kind of stood there not really knowing what to do next, a few of the men who had overheard still in the room said he never shakes hands for religious reasons.

What would you have done? Would you brush this off? I felt like a second class citizen and quite embarrassed. Should I just be accepting of the fact this was his view or do I have the right to be annoyed ?

@browneyes77

Christians also prejudice against women and homosexuals. In the bible were told we are to essentially bow down to our husbands. It's even in marriage vows that we "obey" the husband. It's also the most homophobic religion I have ever known.

I’m Christian and I’ve never been taught or pushed to behave like this towards anyone. The old CofE Christianity that I’ve been brought up in is pretty laid back. We’re all about tea and biscuits and being good to each other grin

Haha, I know, I think I did say somewhere on one of my posts that Catholic church is super strict, whereas a church like the church of England is much more relaxed. Glad I said the right Christian church in the example I was making! And thank you for being kind about it too. It's hot on this thread so nice to have a polite response and a smiley face! I'm going to bow out now on a good note so thank you! It's too much this thread!!! Have a good day

He doesn't want to shake a woman's hand. For whatever reason

Don't agree Lady, what if she had shaken everyone elses hand and not his and he had made a fuss maybe thinking she was being racist if he was the only black person in the room. Would it be ok for her to say 'I don't shake black people's hands'. Of course it would not be ok or are you saying it would be?

Also your comment regarding him not having a chance to tell her before she offered her hand. Are women now to hold back and only shake hands after a man offers?

@LadyInParis - you're right. I did misunderstand you. I apologise.

That said, as it was obvious the op was expecting a handshake or an equivalent mark of respect, he should have done so in a way that fitted with his religious constraints. Not to do so was rude and disrespectful. I agree that he may have been caught on the hop and not intended to be rude or disrespectful.

Hopefully he will use it as a learning opportunity and figure out an appropriate way to behave in situations like this in the future.

@LadyInParis

Yeah we are quite boring really us CofE Christians.

In fact I recall at my CofE Christian primary school that we used to invite schools of other faiths in to talk about their religion and educate us on it. We had one school that talked about Diwali and they brought their homemade sweets in which went down well

We had pictures up on the hall walls that told us what the other religions were aswell and the gods they worshipped. It was all very tolerant and inclusive.

Some religions are very strict and there are some strict Christians out there too, but the majority of us are just trying to be decent people and we don’t live our lives everyday by every word in the bible. I certainly don’t!

Everything I was taught was all about loving your fellow man, having forgiveness and empathy for others. Treat people how you want to be treated etc. None of this fire and brimstone stuff

I've seen that teacher thing before, but thoroughly enjoyed seeing it again - it's lovely!

I wouldnt like to shake hands with you after your .. (not white) comment! ..how odd of you to feel that is ok, but not shaking hands for religious reasons..

Everything I was taught was all about loving your fellow man, having forgiveness and empathy for others. Treat people how you want to be treated etc. None of this fire and brimstone stuff

Same here Browneyes.

Be kind to others. Leave any fire and brimstone to God - apart from anything else, God knows what is in the heart, and what is hurting someone to make them behave badly.

Forgiving is not "letting people off" - appropriate punishment etc has a place, but forgiveness is about seeing the other person as a human being, warts and all, and letting go of any rage or spite you feel. And hopefully, they'll realise their mistake and accept your forgiveness, and not behave so badly again.

Either way, YOU have let it go, and it doesn't fill space in your head and eat away at your life.

@LadyInParis

@browneyes77 - Haha, I know, I think I did say somewhere on one of my posts that Catholic church is super strict, whereas a church like the church of England is much more relaxed. Glad I said the right Christian church in the example I was making!

No, you didn't get it right. It's some of the fundamentalist protestant churches who preach intolerance. Catholicism mainly teaches love one another. At least the Catholicism I was brought up with did. I'm now an atheist though so don't have day to day intimate knowledge but many of my family are still practising.

mum23, I hope you're not referring to me - I am stating that it would NOT be ok to do this!

Not you cupof .. sorry.. meant the OP!

@cupofteaandcake Don't put words in my mouth. More to the point, don't assign analogies to me that didn't happen. I don't even know where those strange racist and women holding back for men came from 🙄😂 you've made some strange comments on here that I'm not going to get pulled into. I have gone through every possibility, wracked my brains for solutions, and I think my posts have been pretty diverse in terms of each person's side of things, and norms etc in general. I have gone into much depth about a lot of things on this issue. Have you? Do you have more input for us? If you don't comprehend my thoughts, I'm sorry for you.

@Isthisafreename I wholly agree. I think we were trying to say the same thing really. I agree he needs to find a way to do this more respectfully. Not just for others, but for himself too. He could find himself ostracized and misunderstood otherwise, and upset others at the same time.

@browneyes77 Your post made me giggle! I come from church of England on my father's side and used to sometimes go with my grandad for the happy singing, tea and biscuits 🤭😂 I hate the fire and brimstone stuff. My mum committed suicide so by that type of standard, she would be in hell right now. For being beaten by her husband so badly and abuse as a child and general mental torment that she couldn't take anymore and ended it. Then more punishment? Not for me! But each to their own. As you said, it's about being kind, respectful, living good lives and being good to others. I try to do those every day, I'm not really religious though.

@mum23cs Oh god! I read your comment as aimed at me, after that other poster suggested something about racism to me. I'm not racist (but apparently I must be self involved to think everyone is having a go at me 😂😳) And I was wracking my brains thinking what have I said now 😂 You were talking to the op? Yeah that comment kind of got my back up slightly too. Maybe she was trying to imply cultural or religious difference I don't know, but it's caused murder on this thread with this Islam thing now!

@SchadenfreudePersonified LOVE your post. Wholeheartedly agree with you there!

@Isthisafreename Like I said I wasn't sure, I'm not religious, but in the case of the lady who I replied to in that comment I was right. She has a great old time of it with tea and biscuits! But being serious she said her church of England was fairly relaxed. I think for me I see Catholic, I mean pope loving extreme Catholic and very strict etc, whichever strand it is that doesn't allow condoms (I'm sorry I am ignorant on the stands of Christianity, it confuses me) I think I have trouble getting past what I said above about suicide and hell so I stay away from it (explains the not knowing the variations) because it touches a nerve that I can't emotionally handle. Hope that makes sense. I'm not against it, I don't hate them, or believers, or anyone actually, I just sort of keep my brain away from it

Completely unreasonable actions. He needs to moderate his actions for the society that he is working in and come up with a respectable compromise - IE doing something that he is comfortable doing with all people.

(Light hearted) perhaps you should have suggested that you self ID as a man? Could have caused a headache for HR then ;)

@LadyInParis

@browneyes77 - Haha, I know, I think I did say somewhere on one of my posts that Catholic church is super strict, whereas a church like the church of England is much more relaxed. Glad I said the right Christian church in the example I was making!

No, you didn't get it right. It's some of the fundamentalist protestant churches who preach intolerance. Catholicism mainly teaches love one another. At least the Catholicism I was brought up with did. I'm now an atheist though so don't have day to day intimate knowledge but many of my family are still practising.

Ohhh, got ya. It was the more relaxed one I was trying to get right 😂 got the strict one wrong. Thanks! Knowledge is power and all that 😊

Don't know why that posted twice. I don't feel strongly enough about it to reiterate that emphatically.

Relaxed in terms of church of England relaxed. Rather than Catholic vs protestant relaxed. I'm making this very complicated aren't I I have no idea what the differences even are to be honest. All I know is there is Catholic and protestant which I think hate each other, or used to, then the super relaxed ones like c of e xx

Don't know why that posted twice. I don't feel strongly enough about it to reiterate that emphatically.

😂😂😂

@LadyInParis - All I know is there is Catholic and protestant which I think hate each other, or used to, then the super relaxed ones like c of e

Church of England is protestant. The British (who were mainly church of England/Scotland at establishment level) introduced the penal laws in the 16th and 17th centuries which prescribed fines and imprisonment for participation in Catholic worship and severe penalties, including death, for Catholic priests who practiced their ministry in Britain or Ireland. Other laws barred Catholics from voting, holding public office, owning land, bringing religious items from Rome into Britain, publishing or selling Catholic primers, or teaching. As the laws eased, Catholics (in Ireland at least) were required to divide inheritance between all sons in order to perpetuate poverty amongst them. Catholic emancipation didn't happen in Ireland until 1829.

In Northern Ireland, catholics were hugely discriminated against in terms of housing and employment. Electoral boundaries were gerrymandered to ensure protestant majorities. This all led to the civil rights marches and the murders of bloody Sunday, which then led to the troubles. The good Friday agreement finally brought peace, although that peace is currently threatened by brexit.

However, the reality is that most of this had absolutely nothing to do with religion per se. It was about power. The original anti-catholic laws were about keeping political opponents down. The same in Northern Ireland. I think you will find if you look a little deeper into any of these conflicts, religion tends to be coincidental rather than causative in terms of conflict.

Thank you for that, that's interesting! It is usually the people in power, or seeking power, or more power, or money, what ever, who use religion as an excuse. Religion is never meant to shed blood or perpetuate poverty etc etc. It seems to be happening again now with the Islam stuff. But considering this thread im not even getting into that subject!! I appreciate the information though, I always thought the Catholics were the bad guys. No idea where I got that from as I'm not from a religious back ground. I only went with my grandad to c of e now and then when I was younger. But he never spoke to me about religion he wasn't a talker haha. No idea where that came from! Especially given the fact that I am aware that it isn't any religion at all that's bad; just the people who use it as an excuse for bad. I think I'll watch some docs tonight. I like to know stuff haha. Thanks.

I always thought the Catholics were the bad guys.

History is written by the victors. I'm Irish so we definitely got a different perspective. I remember coming across a Cromwell St in England in my early 20's and being utterly shocked. I couldn't believe that anyone would name a street after a man who was the antichrist personified. Oliver Cromwell's actions in Ireland were barbarous and genocidal. Recently (about 30 years later) I mentioned this to an English person I met at a wedding. Apparently, there was another Cromwell (Thomas, I think) and it was more than likely him the street was named after. I had never heard of him.

I think those in power will use whatever point of difference they can to create enmity. If the little people have someone to hate, they are less likely to recognise the real enemy to their wellbeing.

I think those in power will use whatever point of difference they can to create enmity. If the little people have someone to hate, they are less likely to recognise the real enemy to their wellbeing. THIS. This is what I was trying to say about people using religion. I'm not very articulate today, on meds that make me a bit drowsy. But yes, this. So that is where it came from then, probably school history lessons or just heard it around. I have no idea but it's awful. It sounds horrible what they did. But very enlightening information, now I have a point of reference to start with, the truth about this Cromwell fella. He must have been bad for you to call him antichrist personified, and the genocide, I only knew about the ww2 genocide, the Armenian one I know of but not in detail, and the native American one which is greatly glossed over by the Americans. Goes to prove your point about the victor always coming out looking better doesn't it. I ran out of documentary ideas so thank you! Always like to know others experience and learn, history, culture etc.

A famous quote from Oliver Cromwell, that all Irish would be familiar with, is the one he used to describe the Burren. It's a very barren area. Utterly unique in terms of fauna and is mainly made up of limestone. He stated that: there is not enough trees to hang a man, not enough water to drown a man and not enough soil to bury a man.

He also decreed that the native irish should go to hell or to connacht (an area poor in natural resources) in order to create a reservation for the natives that was penned in by the river Shannon and the Atlantic ocean.

However, his worst atrocity, was probably the massacre of drogheda, closely followed by the siege of Wexford.

Can't believe so many on herd are giving him a pass. It is not the 11th century, if he can't shake hands with a woman, how is he going to treat a woman as an equal in the office?

Well said tttigress.