Stormzy AIBU

[MissChananderlerbong]

Prepared to be told I'm being old and boring.
I enjoyed Stormzy's set, he's obviously a progressive liberal guy, and he seems like a good human.
So why the sexist lyrics?
"Finish on her face to top it off (ay)"
"If her friend is a dead ting, take one for the bredren"
"2 peng tings at the entrance" (just feels wrong calling women 'things')
If he was just another artist then fine, but he seems so principled in so many other ways. So I find this odd.

Can't believe this thread is still running.

@VivienneHolt Nothing but absolute full applauds for your comments.

@VladmirsPoutine thanks, feel the same about yours!

He changed it to be solo act AFTER Skin from Skunk Anansie pointed out that he wasn't the first black headline act.

Absolutely agree that it's depressing there are so few black artists recognised in mainstream music though.

My issue with Stormzy would be the same irrespective of his skin colour. Misogyny is never ok, no matter who you are or what your race is. I dislike the fact he defended his girlfriend for making racist and disablist comments too.

All I have said - and I am sticking to it - is that criticising Stormzy for misogyny while making excuses for white artists who package misogyny in a more ‘palatable’ form is evidence of racial bias.

I agree with this. Robin Thicke is a good example of a white mainstream artist whose biggest hit was effectively advocating rape. He's disgusting. But he got away with it, when he shouldn't have.

“Making excuses for white artists whose misogyny you find more palatable.”

Er Bivienne - could you please tell me what artists are you actually on about and who have I made excuses for exactly?

You are the one making this into a black / white issue. Meanwhile, I’m talking about porn culture. In case you hadn’t noticed, it affects us all.

If you want me to “make excuses” for white artists then for crying out loud, you need to tell me which ones and what the lyrics actually are. I mean that would help, wouldn’t it? I’m hardly a walking encyclopaedia on misogynistic music through the ages! I just came on this thread about this specific artist because he’s current right now and because of what my daughter said.

Give me a lyric or artist if you want and then I can respond to you in a meaningful way.

Someone mentioned Eminem, for instance, and I couldn’t agree more that his lyrics were violent and misogynistic. This goes without saying. I don’t think that excuses other misogynistic music though.

In the meantime, stop accusing people of racial bias while simultaneously labelling them as “white feminists.” It’s ridiculous.

What would be “unconscious racial bias” is if I held this Stormzy to different standards - eg “oh what do you expect from a black male rapper.” Wouid you prefer that?

I’m not saying he’s the only artist, black, white or otherwise, to be guilty of misogyny. Nobody is saying that. But this thread happens to be about him.

Fgs. Nobody is asking him to be a women’s rights activist! Just have some basic respect and man up. If you wouldn’t put up with your ten-year old son speaking like that, why should any adult man think he can get away with it?

Another (black) MNer who agrees entirely with VivienneHolt and VladimirsPoutine.

Er Bivienne - could you please tell me what artists are you actually on about and who have I made excuses for exactly?

You’ve made excuses for Ed Sheeran on the basis that he hasn’t specifically used the word ‘slut’.

Give me a lyric or artist if you want and then I can respond to you in a meaningful way

I did this several pages ago and you haven’t responded, but please feel free to do so.

In the meantime, stop accusing people of racial bias while simultaneously labelling them as “white feminists.” It’s ridiculous.

I haven’t labelled you a white feminist, I assume you’re confusing me with another poster. I do think you are exhibiting racial bias.

You are the one making this into a black / white issue. Meanwhile, I’m talking about porn culture. In case you hadn’t noticed, it affects us all.

You can’t pretend that issues or racism and sexism don’t intersect just because it’s more convenient for you.

I'm not sure that Robin Thicke did get away with it. There was a lot of criticism on here. No wonder Pharrell Williams is so happy - he managed to offload the criticism primarily onto the singer but iirc he wrote the song!

Vivienne - what other artists did you mention pages back? Tell me again please?

As for Ed Sheehan - why would you even assume I’m remotely a fan of his in the first place? This is utterly bizarre.

I’ve never been to Glastonbury. I don’t follow guitar / hippy / grungy / indie / rock / folk music, if that’s what the festival was traditionally known for - never have. I hate camping and queues.

Did Ed Sheehan headline last year or something - is that why you bring him up. I wouldn’t know and I couldn’t care less. I can’t apologise for music I know nothing about it don’t even identify with.

It’s not convenient for me to pretend that racism and sexism don’t intersect. What a ridiculous projection. We all have racial bias, yes - including you (clearly). I will say this once again categorically - I WOULD HAVE THE SAME ISSUE WITH THAT PARTICULAR LYRIC WHOEVER SAID IT.

This may not fit your agenda, but it’s as simple as that.

there is the exact same double standard where black LGBT folk are held to a higher standard and face greater discrimination than their white LGBT counterparts

Do you have any specific examples of this?

Robin Thicke got a huge load of flack, both on here an elsewhere. If I remember rightly there was mass criticism and talk of boycotts etc.

Robin Thicks song was basically about rape and the video was naked woman dancing around - It isn’t even comparable to stormzys lyrics.

Stormzy doesn’t promote violence/sexual assault to woman. I agree some of his lyrics are questionably misogynistic. I think it’s ridiculous that some people refuse to see/believe the racial bias aspect though. ‘I’d say the same about white people using misogynistic lyrics’ yeah but you don’t, do you? Which is why there’s been 3 threads about Stormzy, people denying or ignoring all the good things he has done in favour of nitpicking at a few lyrics (out of the hundreds of others and many praising woman and telling men to buck up)

Stormzy has had 3 threads because he was headlining Glastonbury. So people who are not his fan base are taking notice of what he says.

They were before he headlined. The last one I read said she had heard it on the radio. So no, that excuse may be valid for this thread as glasto May be the first time this OP had heard him. But this thread alone.

If you seriously think I don’t accept that white men or Asian men can be misogynistic, then I really don’t know what I can say to you.

That Robin Thicke song was extremely misogynistic, yes. I remember it now.

Here’s another one that just sprang to mind- the Marc Almond song from the 80s “Say Hello Goodbye.” I happened to hear it in a shop the other day and thought Hmm -

“As for me, I’ll find someone whose not going cheap in the sales,
A nice little housewife
Who’ll give me a steady life....” etc.

If you give me time, I’ll no doubt think of many more. But Im in my 40s and don’t exactly have my finger in the pulse these days!

I can’t be bothered to google Eminem’s lyrics, but do I need to? We all know they’re violent and misogynistic.

There will be so many examples, but as I say, I’m no proponent of nor expert in “white” music and don’t identify with it more than R&B or rap in any case. Why would I?

I could list a thousand misogynistic lyrics from across the globe, but it wouldn’t mean I find Stormzy’s lyric any less offensive.

I can’t be bothered to google Eminem’s lyrics, but do I need to? We all know they’re violent and misogynistic.

They said I can't rap about being broke no more
They ain't say I can't rap about coke no more
Slut, you think I won't choke no whore
'Til the vocal cords don't work in her throat no more?
These motherfuckers are thinkin' I'm playin'
Thinkin' I'm sayin' this shit 'cause I'm thinkin' it just to be sayin' it
Put your hands down, bitch—I ain't gon' shoot you
I'ma pull you to this bullet and put it through you
Shut up, slut! You're causin' too much chaos
Just bend over and take it like a slut—okay, Ma?
"Oh, now he's raping his own mother
Abusing a whore, snorting coke
And we gave him the Rolling Stone cover?"
You're goddamn right, bitch, and now it's too late...

Also, if you insist on manipulating any criticism whatsoever of Stormzy’s lyrics into a “black” v “white” music debate, apparently grime is very popular in certain areas with a predominantly “white” demographic anyway. My DS isn’t into grime particularly, but tells me that, for younger teens at least, there is such a thing as “Blackpool grime”. If you google it there’s a whole distinct scene up there apparently. It’s all over YouTube etc.

It doesn't matter the country or the ethnicity, women are at the bottom of the heap and men love singing about it. :( Women who object will be shouted down with Whataboutery.

@Storkbloom Kill you, right?

I think Same Song and Dance is worse personally, still like the song though. Probably makes me a very bad person.

I'm lookin' at ya, yeah girl, you're kinda tooken back by
The whole rapper thing, aren't ya?
Probably thinking you'll get slapped so dang hard, ya
Won't even be able to stand up straight, aren't ya?
Couple rape charges, people think you're a monster
The police constantly bugging you non-stop
I walk up on ya, “Well, hello Tonya”
I think you got your OnStar button inside your car stuck
You out of gas? Do you got a flat?
I would hate for you to be stranded at the laundromat
I got your back
Why don't you put your laundry baskets in the back
And sit up front; I'm not asking, it's a trap
You just got jacked and body snatched, and it's a wrap
In broad day, and no mask for this attack

Yeah baby, do that dance
It's the last dance you'll ever get the chance to do
Girl, shake that ass, you ain't never gonna break that glass
That windshield's too strong for you
I said, yeah baby, sing that song
It's the last song you'll ever get the chance to sing
You sexy little thing, show me what you got, give it your all
Look at you bawl, why you crying to me?
Same song and dance

Same kicking and screaming, same crying and sobbing
Same song and dance
Same begging and pleading, same yelling and bleeding
Same song and dance

Thanks Stork. So that’s an example of a vile, misogynistic lyric (one of many) from a white rapper.

Does that mean Stormzy can say as he likes and be beyond reproach in 2019?

No one is manipulating your criticism. It’s important to discuss racial bias and white privilege and how it affects our perception of people and what they’re saying. It’s important to highlight differences in criticism levels between white and black artists.

Stormzy was only the second ever black British act to be allowed to headline glasto (first ever solo) For me personally, this has bought out feelings of both pride and anger at the fact that It’s 2019 and we are still saying first black anything... so maybe it feels more important now to discuss things like this.

If Eminem had paid for a few kids to go to uni and got the crowd chanting “f* Boris” (or insert relevant politicians of his time), would he suddenly be beyond criticism? Would we say, “No you can’t blame Eminem because the WuTang are at it as well? And as for that Ed Sheeran.,,”

Er no. We would judge Eminem on his own lyrics. End of. No excuses.

For me personally, this has bought out feelings of both pride and anger at the fact that It’s 2019 and we are still saying first black anything

Hear hear

Early - I don’t wish to take anything away from him for being the first black solo artist at Glastonbury. I stated yesterday that, if it wasn’t for his repetition of the “facial” lyric (and particularly my young daughter’s interpretation of that) everything else about his act I really liked - I appreciate the energy, the distinctive “Britishness” of the music, the humour, the directness and where it’s coming from, etc. This is precisely why the mindless misogyny of including certain lyrics bothers me so much! I just think “Why??!!”