Stormzy AIBU

[MissChananderlerbong]

Prepared to be told I'm being old and boring.
I enjoyed Stormzy's set, he's obviously a progressive liberal guy, and he seems like a good human.
So why the sexist lyrics?
"Finish on her face to top it off (ay)"
"If her friend is a dead ting, take one for the bredren"
"2 peng tings at the entrance" (just feels wrong calling women 'things')
If he was just another artist then fine, but he seems so principled in so many other ways. So I find this odd.

Why don’t you start a thread though and let us know about it? Nothing stopping you.

What is your obsession with insisting people need to start new threads?! Discussing the difference in people’s reactions to Stormzy as opposed to other artists is a completely valid thing to do on a thread about Stormzy.

You just don’t want other artists discussed on this thread because you want to be able to discuss your issues with Stormzy without having to examine your own unconscious racial bias, and references to other artists who are just as (or more) problematic but who get a free pass because they are white interfere with that.

But again, nobody is saying there aren’t other acts that may offend in other ways, This is very odd, childish logic. Deal with the matter at hand.

Again, this is something you’re only asking people to do because it makes you uncomfortable to be asked why you have a problem with Stormzy but not with someone like Ed Sheeran. It’s not ‘childish logic’, it’s a completely valid point about the double standards faced by black artists. You’re just not willing to accept that double standard, so you don’t want evidence of it on this thread.

If there’s a thread about Madonna or Beyoncé then people discuss them in light of whatever the AIBU is. They don’t need to go scrambling in circles deflecting about other people. Isn’t that what MN calls “gaslighting?”

People disagreeing with you is NOT gaslighting and this is a deeply manipulative accusation.

Asking posters to consider the ways in which their own subconscious racial bias might be influencing their views on Stormzy isn’t ‘deflecting on to other people’. It’s an absolutely relevant point to be making on a thread like this.

Yet again you cannot say one negative thing towards anyone non English in case of being accused of racism. That's my point.

Stormzy is English - born and bred in Croydon.

Look I'm not going to get into a debate about Stormzy and where he comes from or his skin colour.

There’s nothing to debate here. He’s English, from Croydon, and he’s black. Those are facts, and you can’t debate facts.

Unless your point is that him being black means his not really properly English, but I know you wouldn’t be so overtly racist.

'double standards'? So because of the colour of my skin I'm not allowed to speak out about misogyny wherever I see it? It's pretty low to accuse every one of 'unconcious racial bias' because they don't like what stormzy says about women. It's not just low, its bollocks.

I’m sorry to say Vivienne, your posts are starting to sound unhinged, they really are. Literally anything I say, you’ll say it’s racial bias. You just can’t / won’t conyemplate anything else could possibly be at play here. I think you need to look at your own racial bias because if anything, that is blinding you to the point here. I am talking as a mother and woman.

I do not identify as a “white feminist” either. I have spoken about my 11 year-old daughter and her interpretation of the lyrics. Yet apparently I should just let it go because “racial bias.” Bollocks! If it were Eminem, I would be saying exactly the same thing. In fact, I did when he was current.

People on MN are from all ethnicities by the way, as is life in Britain. I’m not even British. You sound like a broken record. You are missing the point entirely.

It would be nice if singers / rappers could create lyrics which didn't refer to this sort of thing wouldn't it? that'd be a step forward.

That is what I was trying to say. I don't care what skin colour he is, his lyrics were offensive and I wouldn't like my child listening to that. But people as usual brought race into it which wasn't needed. As usual, people are offended lol and calling me racist. I just think it's ridiculous that in this thread his race was brought into it when it was about his lyrics. Let's move on to the actual topic, not about racism.

'you had great bands like Take That at the peak of their career.'

Lol

Black woman here. Parents from an African country. I joined up just to say I agree 100 per cent with Paloma.
I have 2 daughters who have to live with this shit. You go to bed with a boy/man. He's likely to blow his load in your face and take a photo. Because as a sexually active young woman you are just a thing - you don't deserve any compassion - you are just a trophy to boast about like a car.
Question: Does the existence of this shitty little rao Vossi Bop make it more or less likely for this sort of thing to happen to one of my girls?

I wish I could prosecute these grime "artists" for hate crimes against young women.

I agree that rap doesn't help with how women are spoken about. We get talked about like objects and "things".

It’s all very well to say, “What consenting adults do is nobody else’s business” blah blah. We are talking about teens and young people here. When teen boys talk about “facials” this will be largely informed by porn. If in any doubt about the impact that the normalising of this in our culture has on young people and society, well, you are only two clicks away from images on YouPorn or PornHub of “facial compilations” in which women / girls are generally on their knees while being routinely choked and forced to deep-throat until they vomit while the man pulls their hair and forced her into him to prevent her getting a breath. Then, their faces and make-up smeared with saliva and / or vomit they’re told to smile while he relieves himself in her face. Sorry to have to be crude and say it for what it is, but this is what we’re talking about here. It’s not about race fgs. It’s not the same world as it was when I was a teen. I don’t want this for my daughters. So when the whole of Glasto are swaying and mindlessly chanting about “giving her a facial”, I just think Wtf! I don’t care if the artist is a black man - why would you not expect me to hold him to the same standards as any other human being? This makes no sense.

This country is where Stormzy is from. What on earth are you on about @Mnetter19831983

Yeah so many double standards. When Robin Thicke does it there's an international outcry, radio stations ban his records and the like. When Stormzy does it....oh, nothing happens.

I couldn't give an actual shit what colour/race/religion/class he is;what's that got to do with anything?. Offensive terminology and sexist, nasty misogynistic lyrics speak for themselves. And the lyrics to that song are exactly that. Accept it and stop prevaricating with all your posturing apologist bollocks some of you .

Foolish man has just had to apologise for claiming to be the first black act to headline Glastonbury.

Er no mate, Skunk Anansie did it when you were 5.

First solo black act though or not? (I'm not into Glastonbury)

Solo British black artist

I wish I could prosecute these grime "artists" for hate crimes against young women you don't speak for all women.

InTheHeatofLisbon solo artist, not act.

It’s depressing regardless that there are so few.

you had great bands like Take That at the peak of their career. And in terms of black artists, you had Jodeci, Blackstreet etc, real soulful music, nice wording(in some of the songs anyhow)

Sounds like boring music to me. Music is subjective, we don't all like the same stuff.

I’ve not listened to enough Stormzy to have a completely informed opinion but yes, of course those lyrics are problematic, but ultimately he strikes me as a young man likely to learn from criticism.

On another point, someone’s referenced lyrics that I’ve realised are about a loved one and I now have lots of questions for her!

I think that as a young black man its not really that much of a surprise that womens rights etc are not a part of his activism. We all find causes we relate to and unfortunately very few men seem to be able to genuinely empathise with the issues facing women in modern society. Shows we have a long way to come but I'm not going to disregard the good that he does do because he isn't perfect.

Damn if you find stormzy bad you should stay really really far away from grime music.

Don’t like it, don’t listen I’m sure he doesn’t care what Mn think. His paying for children to go to uni, getting books published and trying to get a message to those who listen to grime to stay off the streets and make something of themselves but oh shit he said slut so his the devil reincarnated 🙄

Pretty sure he was the first artist to ever actually get grime into the hit 40uk too.

I’m sorry to say Vivienne, your posts are starting to sound unhinged, they really are.

Ahh, that mumsnet favourite - if I don’t agree with you, I must be unhinges.

Literally anything I say, you’ll say it’s racial bias.

You’ve been saying the same thing over and over...

You just can’t / won’t conyemplate anything else could possibly be at play here.

And you are completely refusing to accept that racial bias could exist. Even being confronted with the possibility of it is a problem for you, hence you asking for it to be moved to other threads where you don’t have to consider it.

I think you need to look at your own racial bias because if anything, that is blinding you to the point here. I am talking as a mother and woman.

Are you suggesting I have racial bias against white people? Because that categorically isn’t a thing. Don’t know why you think it’s relevant that you’re a wife and mother - neither of those things make you immune to racial bias.

I do not identify as a “white feminist” either. I have spoken about my 11 year-old daughter and her interpretation of the lyrics. Yet apparently I should just let it go because “racial bias.”Bollocks! If it were Eminem, I would be saying exactly the same thing. In fact, I did when he was current.

I’ve never said you should let it go. Come on, you know that. I’ve repeatedly said I think Stormzy uses misogynistic lyrics. But alongside that is the entirely valid point that lots of people, including you, have criticised Stormzy for sexism while making excuses for white artists whose misogyny you find more palatable. It’s absolutely reasonable to ask you to question what internal bias has led you to do so.

People on MN are from all ethnicities by the way, as is life in Britain. I’m not even British.

What does that have to do with anything?

You sound like a broken record. You are missing the point entirely.

Whereas every single time you’ve asked people to start a new thread to talk about other artist or insisted that racial bias can’t possibly be at play, it’s been a fresh and innovative new argument.

If he had used a homophobic word, such as the “f” word instead of “slut” and made homophonic sexual references, I wonder would the woke folk of Glasto still be tripping over themselves to justify his work? Would that matter at all to certain posters on here? Or would it all just be cancelled and excused out in light of the fact there has been homophobic references in other songsovsr the years; or such and such said this in 1992; and never mind he pays for some kids to go to uni?

Would the same posters defending him on this mainly female / parenting forum be prepared to go onto an LGBT forum and tell people they are not allowed to be offended for all the above reasons and if they are, well, clearly they need to check they’re racial bias?

When have I ever said you’re not allowed to be offended? Seriously, when?

All I have said - and I am sticking to it - is that criticising Stormzy for misogyny while making excuses for white artists who package misogyny in a more ‘palatable’ form is evidence of racial bias.

And by the way, this is also an issue for the LGBT community - there is the exact same double standard where black LGBT folk are held to a higher standard and face greater discrimination than their white LGBT counterparts, and we should challenge it in that arena too.