‘Two-child limit taking toll on family life’

[SweetMelodies]

www.itv.com/news/2019-06-25/two-child-limit-taking-toll-on-family-life-study-suggests/

So the first detailed research into families effected by the 2-child policy, where tax credits are only paid for the first two children unlike in the past when it was every child, has taken place and has found that families are suffering as a direct result of this.

A lot of comments on SM seem to forget that many many working families are effected as well. Even some families with ‘above-average’ incomes used to be entitled to tax credits for a third or subsequent child.

Any thoughts on this? I have mixed feelings as to whether it will work on in the long-run or not. Of course we all know families who have carried on having babies with no thought because each child has meant another monthly tax credits sum... but then there are also the families who are going to face one unplanned pregnancy that could push them into poverty and make their other children suffer.

@bubblegumunicorn it's based on your last year's wages so most people I know, unless really low earning, were only entitled to it after their maternity as they obviously had less income.

I believe that when you should only have the children you can afford. I would love more children but only had 2, because that's all I can manage financially. Its like saying I "ll buy a ford focus as i can afford it, I wouldn't say it's not fair that I can't afford a Ferrari. However situations can change at the drop of a hat e.g. divorce, being made redundant, fleeing from domestic violence.

@OleWomanInAShoe multiples are exempt if one of them is your first or second if they are your 3rd-5th then nope but 2nd-4th or 1st -3rd you can get tax credits it's not even UC for more than 2 children!!

@Fowles94 I'll look at it again but it was coming up no with a small family income like it's fine I can just not work for a couple of years but it makes our financial situation really tight with just one income! They told me your house hold income can't be over 12k a year to be eligible which is horrific but I'm in an area that's fully UC now!

I cannot believe what I am reading! ‘We can’t afford to have kids so we’ll lash out at people worse off - they definitely shouldn’t have kids’
Missing the bigger issue entirely of what on earth have our government been doing to allow wages and living standards to be so low this is where we are.

@lellikelly29 it’s more akin to “I can’t afford to have more than two kids and I don’t want to pay for others who also can’t afford to have more than two kids to have a larger family that they can’t afford.” We have a pretty good welfare state in this country but people who can support themselves should be supporting themselves and their family. If you can’t afford to have more than two kids there’s o good reason the taxpayer should pay.

My parents got child benefit (family allowance) for my two younger brothers but not for me. My opinion is that if we discourage families from having a third or subsequent child we could lose out. Many talented people were exactly that. Michael Jackson, Donny Osmond, Celine Dion all of them had several older siblings. There will be many more it’s just that I can’t think of them!

If the second child is twins/triplets or whatever then the 2 children rule does NOT apply. So many people don't seem to realise this or have the sense to think that would be the case.

I too would stop child benefit totally and, before anyone asks, no my parents did not get child benefit for me as I am the eldest. Child benefit was not given for the first child.

Not only was child benefit not given for the first child but there was also not all the benefits people get now - housing benefit, working tax credit, child credit, help with council tax etc.

Child benefit is ridiculous and should be scrapped.

My opinion is that if we discourage families from having a third or subsequent child we could lose out. Many talented people were exactly that. Michael Jackson, Donny Osmond, Celine Dion all of them had several older siblings. There will be many more it’s just that I can’t think of them!

I'm pretty sure that most third siblings go on to live fairly ordinary lives.

@mydogisthebest, I’m not sure what you mean. Everyone used to get family allowance (child benefit) regardless of income. Unless you are from before this time?. You would only not get it if one of your parents earned over £50k now. This is another bone of contention with me. We are not entitled to child benefits, but I’ve never understood how two people could earn £49k each and still be entitled but another family could have just one person earning a grand more and get nothing. Makes no sense whatsoever. It should be on household income.

Also, I think cost of living in this country is a lot higher than it was years ago. It is expensive to live in uk.

Why would anyone have children expecting the government to find them

I know. Personally I’d be ashamed if I had to do that.

However I’d imagine plenty just want what they can’t afford and expect others to pick up the cost along with many other reasons. Whilst the state allows it, there will always be people that take advantage.

If we want children to have a better future they need to learn to live within their means, have a decent work ethic and see the welfare state as an absolute last resort. Not as a pot to be accessed for wants.

Child tax benefits started in 18th century, scrapped then re-introduced in 1909 in UK. I don’t agree they should be stopped but agree people need to be responsible in how many children they have. My parents had four of us and couldn’t really afford us. I would like to say it did not matter because we had plenty of love but we didn’t. And I grew up feeling inferior because I didn’t have many clothes etc. Kids shouldn’t grow up feeling like that. I spoil my kids as a consequence.

** child benefit sorry, I meant.

As a side note to the people with the "we all know someone who's kept having kids for the tax credit handouts" you know kids cost money don't you? More kids means higher costs so the increase in benefits is cancelled out.
I also wonder if people commenting about this know what level UC (or tax credits if 4 or more kids) is actually received. No one is living a life of luxery on benefits but they are getting judged at every bloody turn. Either by the people on this thread, the government as probable benefit cheats etc.

I have 4 children and we are lucky to earn enough not to qualify for benefits. We could afford to have 4 children but in the 15 years since we had them cost of living has increased massively, wages hasn't kept up and house prices have soared (the house we have owned for 12 years has doubled in Vale to over 320k). As no one has a time machine to see what the future holds it would be cruel to not have a safety net for those children as they will be the ones that suffer and that doesn't give them the best start in life to become active citizens of the future.

No tax credits when I had my DD and twin DSs. Suppose with the current system I would have qualified with 1st twin but not the 2nd. Always have felt children are just like other things in life, if you can't afford them you can't/shouldn't have them. Those who feel they have entitlement should move to Scotland. Baby boxes for all new borns contains approx £200 worth of goods, £250 award for a child starting school (low income) and from 2020 £10/week for every child under 16 no matter how many in household. Best incentive to abandon contraception.

@bubblegumunicorn its worth trying again directly through the government website. I hope they can help you.

I agree with the 2 children limit. There has to be a cut off point. Earning more through having multiple children than going to work is totally wrong. There are a lot of other things that need improving (such as reduced house prices for a start!) that will improve people’s quality of life but creating a system that encourages people to stay at home and keep having children is totally counter productive and puts additional strain on services such as the council when bigger houses are needed to accommodate those children. We can only afford 1 child and it means sacrificing a bigger house at this point in our lives as the budget will not stretch and we both earn a fairly good wage. It is right lower income families get support so they can also make that choice to have a child but the support should be limited in the same way it is for everyone else who are limited by their salary and home situation

Wow, the level of hatred towards the poor and vulnerable women and their children makes me sick. I feel ill reading this thread. This policy hasn't stopped anyone on benefits or low income I know from keeping their third child. Us 'lower class' folk are hustlers though and we get by. I was gang raped at 13 by some so called friends witnessed by many other young people I was socially austracized and bullied out of school, developed severe ptsd and was taped many times in my teen years, I love how I am judged by women who never had my life single mother in and out of mental hospital etc and told I don't deserve kids. My DP Had to quit work after DD was born due to me poor mental health. My two kids get constant compliments on how well behaved and beautiful they are, but I guess they shouldn't exist because of who I am. This thread just proves I have been right distancing myself from a society who hates me, looks down on me and wants my children to suffer.

It's my mother who was mentally ill in hospital she has a professional career aswell so I don't come from a long line of 'scroungers'. I just need help because my past has made me vulnerable. Counselling always out of touch middle class women who just don't understand my life. Was sexually exploited and in care in my teens. Just never been able to function properly in society due to fear, my kids tell me I'm the best most beautiful mummy in the world though so that's all that matters. They have a huge family And never miss out on anything. Honestly thanks to the posters who have stuck up for people needing these benefits. I was refused sterilisation after DS who was a condom failure, I was only told recently a coil exists without hormones and I have tried every hormonal contraception implant pill injection they make me seriously ill, so what are people like me meant to do. Dead bedrooms destroy relationships and families but hey poor don't deserve human rights do they? So keep your legs closed you low class slut. Honestly hate this country these days.

I cannot believe what I am reading! ‘We can’t afford to have kids so we’ll lash out at people worse off - they definitely shouldn’t have kids’
It's more like 'as adults part of adulting is making decisions based on what you can afford and with many people, rightly, making decisions on their family size based on what they can afford, it's not unreasonable to expect other adults to do the same'.

Should there be better benefits for when people really fall on hard times (e.g. redundancy, long term ill health, disability)? Absolutely!
Is there a strong case for having the minimum wage a living wage? 100%
But people should stop having children if they know they can't afford to support them.

Can't believe people agree with poor women having to fill a form in declaring they were raped or prove their relationship was abusive honestly disgusting all to deprive poor kids of 60 a week. Full of snobs this website.

2eternities - ignore all the smug, complacent fuckers in this thread. There are a lot of decent and kind people who don't judge and don't believe in penalising children for their parents' perceived failures. Stay strong

@Sb74 child benefit never used to be given for the first child. I was first born so therefore my parents did not receive child benefit for me but only started getting it when my sibling was born.

It didn't matter what people did or didn't earn there were no benefits handed out for having children except child benefit but not for the 1st one

@2eternities so people are snobs because they think 2 children is more than enough? Or for thinking people should have the amount of children they can afford? Do grow up