‘Two-child limit taking toll on family life’

[SweetMelodies]

www.itv.com/news/2019-06-25/two-child-limit-taking-toll-on-family-life-study-suggests/

So the first detailed research into families effected by the 2-child policy, where tax credits are only paid for the first two children unlike in the past when it was every child, has taken place and has found that families are suffering as a direct result of this.

A lot of comments on SM seem to forget that many many working families are effected as well. Even some families with ‘above-average’ incomes used to be entitled to tax credits for a third or subsequent child.

Any thoughts on this? I have mixed feelings as to whether it will work on in the long-run or not. Of course we all know families who have carried on having babies with no thought because each child has meant another monthly tax credits sum... but then there are also the families who are going to face one unplanned pregnancy that could push them into poverty and make their other children suffer.

When i had my first child in the late 80s, we recieved family allowance and that was it. We paid for our own children. Fast forward 30 odd years and many things needed for a child are much cheaper, nappies, formula, clothes and equipment. My Daughters first clarks shoes cost near enough the same as i paid for my Grandsons just a few weeks ago.

If I was prime minister, I’d banish child benefits. I don’t think people should have children unless they can afford them.

If I was prime minister, I’d banish child benefits. I don’t think people should have children unless they can afford them

Same. It’s absolute bullshit. If you want kids pay for them yourselves.

Presumably &hithere12 and @laurajade0308, just to clarify, your parents did not receive child benefits that benefitted your upbringing?

@Starfish0

I have no idea? I’m still against it whether they did or didn’t.

I think it is a good idea.

We waited until we could afford dc, then had 2 and stopped as that is all we could afford and I don't think I would have been able to continue working full time if we had more that 2 anyway and we can't afford for me to not work. So limiting our family size to make it for both parents to work full time was also a factor.

And we don't have a extravagant lifestyle, we currently live in a 2 bed and the 2 dc share. Just an expensive area, and no we can't relocate to a cheaper area as we wouldn't be able to find similar work and would have to get lower paid jobs (and then would be topped up by benefits) so catch 22.

I think people who have multiple children (despite using contraception) would be quite rare. But it does happen (happened to a good friend who has had 5 dcs and 8 pregnancies over the last 18 years of being sexually active and despite trying all available contraceptives) so I understand it is difficult. But I still think of it as one of life's unfair situations and there are so many of those.

But I still think the government should encourage people to have smaller families. Better for the environment, the children themselves (I was
one of a large family and I think it is unfair on the children to share parental attention between several dc) and also having smaller families is better for parents in many ways (much easier to get a career/hold onto your career if you have 1 or 2 dc!!)

If people do have large families they need to sort out their own situation.

well I for one wouldn’t wish to deny a child something I benefitted from myself in my own childhood.
Same as free school milk free dental checks etc.

I also think everyone should be taxed less to compensate. But I don’t think childfree people should have to pay for other people’s child benefit. Why’s that so controversial? I’m completely fine with taxes going toward schooling but people should pay for their own kids.

But if it makes you feel big and important @hithere12 give yourself a big pat on the back for being oh so superior.

well I for one wouldn’t wish to deny a child something I benefitted from myself in my own childhood

So you’d be in agreement with every single policy for 30 years ago you may have benefited from then?

And I’ve already said everyone should be taxed less. We have stupidly high taxes compared to other countries for medium/low earners and this big government universal benefits system.

Just tax people less and scrap child benefit.

But if it makes you feel big and important @hithere12 give yourself a big pat on the back for being oh so superior

What 😂 you’re so stupid. I think I’m superior because I don’t agree with people getting free money for having a kid? Pay for your own kid!

I receive child benefit as standard and when ds is older I’m happy for other parents to receive it.
As my parents did for me when I was a child.
It is there to help parents provide a stable upbringing for their children when costs are so high.
If that makes me stupid, then yes I am incredibly stupid.
But at least I don’t think I’m too good to pay forward something that benefitted me.

I don’t get TC but after LOTS of Ivf, I fell pregnant by accident with my third when no 2. was only 3 months old. We’d only planned on having two so was a bit of a shock. Genuinely didn’t think that could/would happen! Suffice to say DH had snip after that. Wouldn’t change it now but accidents do happen.

Well I for one wouldn’t wish to deny a child something I benefitted from myself in my own childhood. Same as free school milk...

Because milk costs a bloody fortune nowadays doesn’t it? Of course no one can afford it, of course it should be provided for free...

No Isabella milk is not incredibly expensive.
Neither is a dental check.
But for families on average to low wages , or higher wages when the cost of childcare is so high, these things can make a big difference.
As I say I received these things for free as a child.
I receive them for my ds.
I’m happy for taxes (that I contribute to) to continue to fund when my son is older.
It’s about paying it forward.

I'm laughing at the people who do not see a link to increasing poverty and crime but ok let's just keep going in circles about the chicken and egg, the egg shouldn't have come out but it doesn't matter because it's all on the menu for the rich, isn't it?

Let's let the paupers eat cake as Marie Antoinette said, nothing could go wrong.

It’s useless to refer back to the 80s or whatever time when you paid for your own children. Your talking of a time where owning a property was a completely achievable goal even if you had a low paid job. Your talking of a time when a family could be sustained with one wage and a parent was able to be at home with the kids.

Today it’s incredibly difficult to afford to buy a home on 2 wages and even if you can afford to buy as in pay a mortgage, it often takes years and years to save the deposit. Wages are not in line with inflation and are low, employers now expect more than ever and job security, well there isn’t really much job security for a lot people these days. We are all disposable it feels like.

I myself have 3 children, my third being completely unplanned 8 years after being done. As it is I am lucky that I can afford to raise my children. That being said it is absolutely beyond belief that we live in one of the richest countries in the world and yet we have children who are suffering, so much poverty and so much homelessness. Who on this earth can possibly think that having a system that only creates more poverty more starvation and more homelessness a good thing???!!!

Let’s be very clear that it is women and more importantly children that get punished by a system and a culture that has demonised those it’s meant to protect.

The way to stop all this is for government to get its backside into gear and make sure employers pay reasonable wages that don’t require being topped up with working tax credits. For education to be affordable/free and accessible. For house prices to be reasonable and mortgages achievable. It should be easy to improve your life, your financial status and circumstances with education and hard work, yet over the years it has become increasingly difficult to do this. Government assistance or hand outs as they are often termed should not been seen as hand OUTS but as as a helping hand UP and should be designed to help you do more than just survive but to improve yourself and your situation to the point of not needing it because this is the problem, this is the trap, if all you can do is afford to survive and nothing else then what is there to reach for, aim for if you can’t get there anyway??

Some of the view, the hate and sheer amount of snobbery on this thread has both shocked and disgusted me!

Lillygolightly

I’m saying taxes should be lower (for middle income and lower income people)

We have such a strange system in the UK compared to other countries. Very few countries in Europe have taxes as high as ours and a huge benefits system. Most just have lower taxes. That’s what I’m saying I’d prefer us to have.

I would have loved to have more then two children!! But guess what I could not afford it!! Only child allowance in the 1980,s no tax credit.

Jacob Rees Mogg has six children. He’s a multi millionaire. Breed as much as you like if you’re a wealthy toff. Having said that, do think less is better for our overcrowded planet

I expected a huge amount of agreement with op about how unreasonable the govt were being to only give allowance for 2 children. Delighted that so many feel the same way as I do (feel very old fashioned about it) that you only have children you want and can afford. And 2 children replaces the ‘naturalwasteage’ of the 2 parents popping their clogs. This world has far too many people anyway. I think it would be better globallyto have nil or one, but then you get the sinister one child policyas in China, leading to huge difficulties, eg now too few girls to go round due to far more sex-selective abortions.....technically illegal, but still carried out.

I think it's a shame multiple births aren't exempt, I had triplets and the whole situation was ridiculous when my husband left. I'm hanging in there but we are really struggling.

@Starfish0

To back up your point my best friend told me a couple of years ago she didn’t agree with tax credits/child benefit and that she didn’t qualify for child benefit anyway.

I told her that her parents would have claimed it for her and she would qualify for child benefit but she said she was sure she wasn’t eligible and definitely didn’t need it to bring up her child.

Fast forward to a few months ago when I had my first child and she is paying for nursery for hers and taking her to soft play every week. She told me she was finding everything expensive and that she tried to claim for child benefit but only had it backdated for 9 months

Saying that though I do think that 2 children is more than enough. We can’t afford a second until our first is at least 3 and it is our responsibility to make sure that it doesn’t happen.

I understand it is possible to have an accidental child but they are very rare, growing up I knew about 2 families with 3 children and they had two parents working full time in average salary jobs. Our income is a lot lower than theirs so I know we could never afford 3.

@OleWomanInAShoe are the triplets your only children?