To ask those of you who have gone NC with parents

[Herbert1234]

When you have children, what was the cut off point?

My parents have a long history of being lovely and then being horrid and really going in at me over tiny things. I'm fed up with it. It kills me every time. But I can't find the strength to go NC because I have a DS who is 1 loves his grandparents to bits. And they're great with him. But they're so bad for my mental health.

Does anyone go NC but still manage a relationship between their children and their parents?

Sorry for the late night rambling, very upset and confused and need a bit of guidance as to what's best.

OP Have a look at the site Out of the Fog online it has some good stuff on boundaries.

Well, I started out with boundaries but mine have some mental problems which mean they make up lies about me etc and this results in a lot of stress and didn't want the Dc involved. Didn't feel could trust them with the Dc either alone.

I started off trying to do things like meet all together in a place outside the home and do medium chill (so just talk about vague stuff and deflect any other stuff) but that didn't work- they would get into the house via the neighbours, did weird stuff like when DC had pneumonia, come visit and suggest weird stuff like they didn't like the oxygen tube...wanted it off, (could have been fatal for DC) then blamed me when in hospital also and made up lies I was a 'drug addict'

It came to a head when they went to DH's family and started it with them also, and then when I went NC with my mum (who was the worst) my dad started doing things like writing to my DC about how 'wonderful' my mum is...so managed to screen that and get there first...

So this led to NC with both, now. They are both divorced but still very enmeshed. I hope you can find something that works. Oh and DC are fine, they don't mention it, they see in laws also.

I went nc with my mum. After several failed attempts since my dd was born. She's now 3 and I wish I'd stuck with it when she was younger. My m has frequently taught my dd to call her mummy and me by my christian name, she buys her things and spoils her knowing I can't and makes a big deal out of grandma buying everything and mummy buying nothing. She's always super nice to my daughter and leads her into situations where she needs telling off then calls me to tell her off as she won't do it. Making me the bad guy. Me and my dd have such a better relationship now my m isnt around, just wish I'd stuck with it sooner. Just because she's nice to your child it doesn't mean her I tentions are good. So glad, it's the best thing ever not talking to that horrible vile woman. This was all the final straws. Obviously there was so much more going on and these are just off of the top of my head. She fwas never ever left alone with my dd either from the day she was born. The teaching dd to call her mummy happened when I went to the toilet. It was scary. My childhood was horrific and tbh I have no idea why its taken so long to cut her out. Hope probably. But seeing her attempt to turn my daughter against me was the end of it.

OP, my situation sounds similar to yours. Your DS is young enough to forget all about them. I waited until mine were infant school age, and they still both remember my parents and ask why we don't see them.
As my children got older, the cracks started to show, and my parents could no longer keep up the normal facade, and would miss children's birthdays/Christmas etc. And still continued to treat me like shit, so I had to go nc for my own sanity.

Just imagine your son being in a bad relationship like that, and not being able to advise him to walk away, because you didn't.

Has anybody ever gone nc at 3? Its my big regret not sticking with it when she would forget. She has an amazing memory and still talks about things that happened well over a year ago.

My DS (11) hasn't seen his DGP since last year and he's not once asked to go to see them or said he misses them. On the other hand he frequently talks about missing my DM and when the next visit is (no issues with my DM thankfully). His DF is much happier as the joy isn't being sucked out of him regularly and that makes for a happier home for the three of us. They sent cards for Christmas and his birthday. I think my MIL is a psychopath or sociopath, whichever, it's hard to know what the correct term is. My FIL is very easy to get on with and I believe he does genuinely love us, but he goes along with her.

I suppose the biggest thing is how much happier and more peaceful our home is and how much more time and energy DH has for DS. If your parents are sucking the joy out of you, they are stealing that joy from your DC. And you are allowing them. You could stay in contact if you learn to not give a toss about them or what they say to you. I think this is extremely difficult though as parents have such power to hurt us.

I've been NC with my narcissist DM for 2 yrs now, NC means NC, so that includes my DC with whom she no longer has a relationship. She's is a deeply unpleasant woman and her presence in my DC's life would add nothing at all, so I'm comfortable with things that way.

@NoFilter101 I went no-contact when my daughter was 5. Children are often far too absorbed in who/what they can see to be too concerned with who/what they can't, and I didn't have to answer questions very often at all. When I did, I just said "Oh, they're very busy."

Now that my daughter's almost 13, I've been able to explain more fully: she understands, and she's fine with it.

Oh good, thank you for your reply. It's been 4 months and I get the odd question and sometimes she wants to go and see her but really nothing much. It's such a horrible situation to be in. Hugs to op. If you are Co side g it the earlier the better imo

Thank you for all the replies and hugs to everyone who's been through it, or is going through it. It's brutal realising your parents don't always have your best interests at heart.

Anyone have a mother who can be so lovely and so genuinely mum like then turns into this nasty person out to get them?

As for my son, it's true that the last few days I've been a shit mum. We're playing and having giggles etc but I haven't been to a play group or done anything remotely stimulating with him. Off swimming later so he should enjoy that.

I also don't know how my nan will cope with me going NC. We have an extremely close knit family and the idea of there ever being any issues is crazy. When it's all come out before it's always me that's the bad guy and I don't want to lose the rest of my family. Funnily enough we're just about to start planning our wedding for next year and it's a horrible thought to think they may not be coming.

Sorry for the rambling it's good to get it all down.

Playing is stimulating and developmentally critical. You don't need to be off on a whirlwind of structured activities to be a good mum! I'm shocked you've called yourself a shit mum on those grounds.

I have to say reading your posts you write exactly like somebody who has been subjected to years of coercive control and has been ground down by abuse to think and feel what the abuser wants.

I don't know if it's helpful or not to know that was you're describing is classic abuse, including alternating between lovely behaviour and cruelty. It's actually a very effective way to mentally break someone and condition them to comply with you rather than resisting, because they blame themselves for the cruelty and start to respond by trying even harder to appease the abuser to get the "lovely" side back again.

Sound familiar? She is in control of her behaviour, not you. The cruelty is a decision she makes on her own account to meet her own needs (to feel powerful over you) not something you can alter by being perfect enough and doing what she wants more.

You could dedicate the rest of your life to nothing more than trying to be perfect enough to keep her in "lovely" mode and it would never be enough to stop the cycles of cruelty. She would just find new things you were supposedly doing wrong as her excuse to be cruel, because it's never about what you've done it's about her need to feel she's controlling you.

Breaking the cycle is a process, not one dramatic decision and I wish you all the best.

Lots of good advice here, but I'd really like to echo this. Even being able to think things through in the way that you are and to reflect like this is a very big step. It's important that you're ready.

@sevenoftwelve that was actually quite hard hitting to read.

As for the being a shit mum thing I just feel bad we've been cooped up for most of the last few days or running errands, or crying when another vile message comes through. Not just in those grounds. But he'll live and he's happy.

It's funny you say about appeasing her to get teh lovely side back. When I was younger she'd get in a huff and I would literally tidy the whole house, or make her a cup of tea or try and give her a hug to make her happy again. And I'd feel anxious until she turned happy again.

Some of the stuff they've done is horrendous. Including Mum and my three siblings locking me in my room and pushing me around to stop me from leaving at the age of 19 because I wanted to go to my boyfriend's house. When I met my partner they weren't happy about the age difference so came to his house shouting about how I was giving him sex so I could have his money and how I was mentally ill and he was taking advantage. Or the death threats issued to my DP and my previous and only other partner. They wanted me to not go into work for Mother's day and ended up kicking me out that evening. Don't get me wrong I've not been perfect but I really just don't think I deserve this. They call me a liar, selfish, immature amongst other things and my self confidence takes an absolute battering.

So why is it I can't just go NC. I don't understand why I still doubt myself. I so badly want a relationship but it's just not going to happen unless I out myself through this shit time and time again.

What happens when DS can understand that I'm crying and upset, or understands what they're shouting at me. I don't even like them shouting around him, we don't shout at home, ever. He's not used to arguing.

Did I read right that he's only 1? If so, then doing it now will be far easier than dragging it out. He won't remember them, he won't feel as though he's missing out and he will benefit immensely from having a happy mum rather than one who is struggling mentally to maintain a relationship with someone who is treating you badly. Do what you need to for your own wellbeing - that is the most important thing for your son, not a relationship with someone who could turn on him at a moment's notice.

I'm lucky - I went NC with my dad before my children were born, so I have explained to them that he wasn't a kind man and that we don't have to see people who make us unhappy and they totally accept that.

It's very very hard. I don't see my mum any more. I think she has dementia. My sister hates me, and has told my mum lies about me and my mum now won't speak to me, my grown up children, and my grandchildren. It has been devastating. We have all tried speaking to my mum but she wants nothing to do with us as she thinks we are all plotting against her. My mum only listens to my sister. Nobody else. My mum even won't let my dad see us. He gets hell if he tries to. And with my dad being elderly he just wants to keep the peace and no hassle. He is too ill himself. So we have all had to step back hugely, for our sanity. I hope you find some peace in whatever you decide to do.

you deserve so much more.

I went NC when DC was young but old enough to remember, I explained that GP treated mummy badly and that you should never have people in your life who don't value and respect you.
I also explained that it had taken mummy a while to be brave enough to make the decision because once these toxic people are in your life they make you feel bad about yourself and you lose confidence.
Obviously all done in an age appropriate way.

I went NC as I want DC to be able to immediately cast toxic and abusive people out of their life and not have to suffer, and if I don't model that behaviour how is DC going to learn it?

I try to always be a good role model for DC, and I think the forgiving/overlooking family stuff is a very dangerous message for kids, it leaves them wide open to grooming for one thing.

I was so happy recently when DC walked away from what was turning out to be a toxic friendship, despite peer pressure, and that makes it all worthwhile.
Giving DC the skills, confidence and freedom to know that they deserve to always be treated with respect, and that its always OK to walk away from anyone who doesn't treat you well.

NC with parents for two years. They were great with DCs when the children were very young, but when they started approaching teenage years, the comments began from my parents: how they were losing their innocence , dressing, eating, talking, etc. I then became very aware of what the DCs saw in terms of how my parents treated me. Just not worth it.

Since going NC, the children and I have had lots of conversations about boundaries and healthy relationships. I've asked in several ways, but they don't seem to miss them at all - they're very close to MIL and FIL instead, two grandparents who genuinely love them.

I know it's not exactly the same thing, but would you want your DS in a friendship triangle where he was being treated terribly by a friend who behaved really well to a mutual friend? Your child will be upset by how you're being treated as they get older. Good luck, OP

Herbert1234, from what you have said, you are the family scapegoat. I'm sorry to tell you this but you will always be the family scapegoat. You could turn yourself inside-out and upside-down trying to earn your mother's love and approval. You could be a 24/7 concierge and taxi service for her. It still won't be enough. She will still find fault. She will still use you as her personal punching bag. Being lovely to you and then cutting you to the quick is how she exercises control over you. It isn't going to change.

In the meantime, she has a new toy to play with - your DS. For the moment, she can indulge herself in performance grandparenting because it is evidence to the whole world of what a wonderful grandmother she is. However, just wait until your DS is old enough to start forming his own personality and his own likes and dislikes. The moment he chooses to do - or, worse, to be - something that she doesn't approve of, she will do to him what she does to you

I'm so sorry to say this to you. As the child of narc parents, I know only too well how much this situation with your mother has hurt you and how much you crave a normal healthy relationship with a loving mother. However, for the sake of your own mental health - and particularly for the sake of your child - stop chasing the dream and above all, protect your child from this toxic situation. 💐

I'm in a similar place to you although I have a stepdaughter. Last time they saw us they were utterly vile to her. I had a chat with her afterwards and she was unfazed by what they'd said but it's not the point at all is it. I don't want her thinking those sorts of comments are okay or that she should take notice and have her self esteem ripped to shreds as a result. Thing is they don't even realise the damage they're doing or that my mental health is so crap because of them!

As others have said, it sounds like low contact may be the best route for you. Your mental health is important and in some ways I'd say it's even more important than your son's relationship with his grandparents - which as others have pointed out really isn't the be all and end all. It's tough realising your parents are never going to be who you need them to be

Oh, op, you don't deserve any of this. You deserved to be cared for, and protected, and nurtured. You deserved family who were overjoyed to see you blossom in confidence and excited to see your life develop.

I'm so sorry you've not had those things from them.

You still doubt yourself because of the impact of a lifetime of abuse, you still doubt yourself because you're human and want to be loved by them just like anybody else would, and you still doubt yourself because despite everything they've done to you you are still a caring person who doesn't want anybody else to hurt the way you have.

There is also an element of grief in all of this and I think those doubts are part of the grieving process. You need to grieve for the childhood and family you should have had, as well as the dreams you had for your future relationship with them and the relationship you hoped your son could have with them. They are real losses. You're allowed to grieve for all of those things and I think it's important for you that you let yourself do so without beating yourself up. It's part of healing.

I think it's great though that in one very significant way you have already broken the cycle for your son - because you know you don't want him to go through what you did and you're already actively trying to protect him. Not just by thinking about this, but in the care and consideration you're putting into his needs and his wellbeing. Just be careful that you don't burn yourself out trying to be perfect for him - he doesn't need perfection from you.

I wonder if, although you may not feel able to act solely on your own account, you would feel able to act if you felt you were acting for your son as well? If that would help you tap into the strength you need? You've set out compelling reasons in your last post as to why he already needs to be protected from their influence.

When you're hurting, I hope you can hold onto the strength and courage and determination that have helped you to not only survive all of this but to work on building up a better life for yourself and your son. It says a lot about you.

Yy, as seven and others say, it is a grieving process. There days when I feel so angry and cheated out of all the lovely mother/daughter relationship things.
I lost the rest of my family too when I went NC as they didn't want the boat even slightly rocked, so they sure as hell didn't appreciate me sinking the fucker.

There is a cold, stark point when you realise that you don't want contact with other family members either, the ones who instead of loving and supporting you just want you to keep accepting the abuse for the sake of "family". The ones to whom your happiness and that of your children is an acceptable sacrifice in order to maintain the status quo.

It makes you see people in a whole new light (and hurts like hell) and for me this was the point at which I truly knew deep down that what I was doing was right and the last of my doubts faded.

DH grew up in foster care, is military, and a fair amount older than me, and my parents were always very scathing about our relationship. We've been together a long time now and it becomes more and more obvious to me that the reason try hated him so much was that he helped me find my self respect and my confidence, he has always treated me like an equal partner, half of a team, and has always been there to pick me up when I fall. A very novel concept to a child of narc parents!

I agree with the others who said - if they are damaging to your own mental health it follows they will be to your ds.

My mum can be lovely and fun, she can also be very abusive and was a neglectful parent. Having experienced what this is like as a child, I will never give her unsupervised access to my kids (i.e. never ask her to have them for the day) because the fun/nice bit does not outweigh the potential damage.

If you go NC you won't be there to make sure they're getting 'fun gp'.

If they're unbearable for you to be around, think twice about them building a relationship with your kids

We went nc with my mil almost 2 years agp.we have 2 dc, and they don't remember her.

It was honestly the best decision we've made, wouldn't change a thing.

There are bil and sil's involved who think we're being overly harsh etc, and at times they've agreed with us but are the kind of people that stick by her because she's their mum, and they feel they have to.

Don't feel like you have to keep a relationship with anyone who's poisoning your life.

In my experience grandparents don't bring a great deal to a child''s life, particularly if they are likely to be unpredictable and blow hot and cold.

Just noticed your recent update.

It definitely seems like going NC would be a healthy decision for you. I wonder if it's hard to have perspective as you're still feeling a lot of their influence in your life. After a while away from them, and focussing on spending time with supportive/nice people instead, you may see more clearly that they're not 'lovely' at all, they sound quite abusive, and you and your family will have a happier & healthier life away from them!

You can't change them, they will always be who they are. They're not going to magically become good people, even though it would be amazing if they did.
Suspect you feel a bit guilty/self-blaming because of years of them gaslighting and undermining you.

It's not your fault. And you and your son do not need them.

My cut off point was a 'straw that broke the camels back' situation, however, I had unconsciously been very low contact with my parents for about 2 years before going no contact. After my golden child brother had a child my DD's were cast to the side and my mother especially started to treat my DD's as she and my father did me when I was younger. I had been doing a lot of reading regarding toxic parents and I found after all the reading and research etc that no contact was quite easy.

My parents, more so my mother, resisted and pushed back tremendously. However, I refused to have any contact whatsoever ever with her. I threw away letters, cards, gifts etc all unread and unopened (never sent them back to my parents), I blocked her on my mobile and eventually changed my number, I rebuffed all of the flying monkeys and refused point blank any, however small, contact with her. My father, being the gutless person he is, dropped me also. I knew that the possibility of losing him and other family was high, it still hurt though.

I am 5 years NC, I have had over 10 years of therapy, been in crisis twice and had 2 breakdowns, I suffer with severe PTSD, anxiety, OCD and depression (all professionally diagnosed by psych). I am only just starting to come out of the other end with the support of DH, DD's and my friends and a LOT of hard work on my own part.

My advice to you, read and research as much as you can about toxic parents/relationships, allow yourself to feel angry, upset, bewildered and any other feelings that show up. Understand that it is them that are wrong and toxic, not you. As PP's have said shit parents really do make shit grandparents so don't fall into the trap of thinking they will treat your DS well or better than they did you because they won't. You may have to challenge every thing you know, every feeling they incite in you because you will have been conditioned from an early age to put up with this abuse, and it is abuse. Don't let your DS become another victim of their abuse.

We also have a massive family and my mum would no doubt try and poison everyone against me. She did this last time. I don't want DS to lose the rest of the family too, and nor do I
One of the best things to come out of going NC for me was the realisation that the majority of my extended family are toxic too and i'm better off without them.

I was emotionally blackmailed with that threat too as they thought it would keep me 'in line' and i'd always be there begging them for love and acceptance.
They get an enormous sense of power out of that.

Those 'people' who choose to side with your toxic family are also toxic.
If they can't find it in them to have their own relationship with you then are they really worth having in your life?

Your family are using your dc to get at you.
In a healthy dynamic you would say "You only get access to my child if you treat me with respect".
They're telling you that they have power over you, that you are still worthless but they'll still take what they want from you - your child.

Growing up surrounded by these toxic people he's going to be conditioned and bullied to treat you like shit too.
They'll play the same games with him - do as we want or you're on your own.

At some point that condition will be "your mum or us".

Your family will take everything you hold dear and destroy it - because you're letting them.
These people threatened yours and your dp's lives fgs - WHY do you think they deserve space in your family unit?

You're still enmeshed in F.O.G (fear, obligation, guilt) and can't see just how ridiculous- and dangerous - this is.