To think you can't physically force somebody to have a late term abortion?

[Cringemum]

Just that really.

I was following the thread on the feminist board about the 22yo woman with LD's, who is 22 weeks pregnant, and a judge has ordered the pregnancy be terminated against her wishes.

The thread reached the maximum amount of comments before anybody was able to shed any light on my question.

I can't fathom how she can be physically forced to go through the procedure if she refuses to comply.

Could anybody shed any light on how exactly something like this could be enforced short of physically dragging her to the hospital and restraining her.

Horrible, horrible case by all accounts and my POV is that the judge has made the wrong decision - for the mother - I'm strictly pro choice in all situations but this doesn't sit right with me at all.

Many on the previous thread strongly disagree as is their prerogative but I don't understand how she can be made to go through with a termination?

Anybody?

If she is a person without the capacity to make these decisions then how has been unsupervised long enough to become pregnant? Poor woman so so traumatic in any eventuality.

"I am much more confident in their judgement than the judgement of random people on the internet without access to the details of the case."

Fair enough, the OP asked for opinions, I've given mine.

I don't have a lot of faith in the judges due to my experiences with the legal system.

I've explained above why I think the judge got it wrong.

You mean the following, in which case let me break it down for you:

If the woman does not want a termination

She doesn't understand what she wants as she does not have the capacity to make the decision.

the mother doesn't want a termination

Its not up to her mother, her views do not matter.

the termination would be forced on her

As would labour if the pregnancy continued or a CS should they have used this method, she might say she doesn't want either so it would have to forced on her.

and the pregnancy is already well underway

That's probably the crappest argument i've ever heard.

@Tallgreenbottle
I think that would be better but isn’t always offered depends on other factors like patient health whether they can have sedation or anaesthetic

I was induced this was a long time ago, 20 years. I wasn’t forced by a court or restrained by anyone but I wasn’t given any other choices so I went along with it

@HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone

Sorry, but I still agree completely with OP.

You specified an eight year old in your previous post. So presumably that eight year old doesn't have capacity either. In which case, if a court decides she must carry on with the pregnancy, then the decision must be correct and the eight year old's views are irrelevant?

Was this directed at me?

A court in this country would never force an 8 year old to go through with a pregnancy. Unfortunately in America, a country which is already fully embodying dystopia, courts are already ordering this and it’s horrific.

What that has to do with the current situation being discussed I do not know.

It's not crap at all to be concerned about the long gestation of the baby. It's not crap because there is now no way for the baby to be removed without significant medical intervention.

She doesn't have capacity - drs have said she has no ability to understand about childbirth, cannot raise the child and even keeping her baby healthy during the pregnancy is not something she can grasp

When I say good decision... I mean right. I couldn't think of the correct word for it.

We don't have anywhere near enough information to consider our own views on her particular case to be well informed, but that being said, there's nothing that would change my own mind about forcing her to undergo a termination against her will - unless there was evidence to suggest that her life would be at risk if she didn't have the termination.

I understand overruling the person's wishes if it means saving their life, but I don't agree with this and my mind won't be changed.

averythinline the woman is 22 not 6-9

Yes, it was aimed at you. I'm not sure why you think it's any different to question the decision made by any court in any country.

Don't you think there are people in the US who are similarly satisfied as you are in the case that justice has been done when women are forced to continue their pregnancies? Don't you think they're using the same excuse as you - the judge must know best?

It’s ok to not agree as that is your feelings and opinion but there are also facts that you can’t really and shouldn’t really ignore I think that is what other people find frustrating

Sorry, but I still agree completely with OP

So you still agree that this women is being forced against her will to have a termination? Even though you don't have all the facts and you believe the people who had all the facts and made this decision are wrong? Then there is no discussing this with you, your logic is severely flawed.

What's the difference between the woman being raped and having a 'consensual' sexual relationship with another person of the same intellectual level? She can't consent to either, so surely she's been raped in either case. But you know there is a difference. A very big difference to her.

If she says she doesn't want a termination, that matters.

@HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone

Not sure it's worth debating it, we are not going to bring the other round to our point of view.

You think my logic is flawed, I think your faith in the courts and judges is naive.

Yes I agree with OP. I would take matters into my own hands if it were my child and I had the resources. I believe that forced abortion is barbaric and this is being forced, by the state, upon this woman.

We don't have anywhere near enough information to consider our own views on her particular case to be well informed, but that being said, there's nothing that would change my own mind about forcing her to undergo a termination against her will - unless there was evidence to suggest that her life would be at risk if she didn't have the termination.

Her will isn’t known, because she doesn’t understand the question and therefore her decision can’t actually be ascertained. I can see that you are determined to continue wilfully misconstruing this, which simply proves you just want to twist this woman’s experience into a narrative which suits your agenda.

Well she is being forced to have a termination isn't she, how is she not?

As everybody is pointing out she doesn't have the capacity to understand labour and will find giving birth traumatic, the same can be said for a late term abortion except with the abortion somebody then has to tell her that her baby has died.

Sorry but I think it's terrible and having spoken with people who have gone through abortions at similar gestations I refuse to believe it's the lesser of two evils as some of these women are left traumatised and emotionally scarred, and they actually chose that option because it was right for them.

Agree with @HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone. Plus, the pregnancy itself has already been forced on her. She did not have the capacity to consent to sex in the first place.

There is no good outcome here, but from what we know, termination has been found to be the least worst option.

"I refuse to believe it's the lesser of two evils as some of these women are left traumatised and emotionally scarred, and they actually chose that option because it was right for them."

@cringemum - you are right, in my view.

@Cringemum

"We don't have anywhere near enough information to consider our own views on her particular case to be well informed, but that being said, there's nothing that would change my own mind about forcing her to undergo a termination against her will - unless there was evidence to suggest that her life would be at risk if she didn't have the termination.

I understand overruling the person's wishes if it means saving their life, but I don't agree with this and my mind won't be changed."

And this is why we have the court of protection. They have all the facts, and have made a decision in her best interest. Not yours, not the grandmother's, not the foetus. Hers. This is not Gilead.

somebody then has to tell her that her baby has died

Not if it's not in her best interests to do so and/or if she doesn't gave capacity to understand that information

You really really don't understand about best interests and capacity do you?

I have no agenda, I have read everything that you have and am sharing my own POV on it.

What I have is a personal opinion which conflicts with yours, and others, and that's fine because I have absolutely no say as to what happens.

Just because I disagree with the courts ruling doesn't make my opinion wrong or invalid.

There are others who disagree and I saw a petition yesterday with over 45,000 signatures on which accumulated in around 24 hours so there are many, many others who disagree aside me and the others on this thread who do.

It's still guesswork isn't it? the judge doesn't have a crystal ball to see into the future of two scenarios and see which one results in less harm. She has made a guess.

Here you go