To think you can't physically force somebody to have a late term abortion?

[Cringemum]

Just that really.

I was following the thread on the feminist board about the 22yo woman with LD's, who is 22 weeks pregnant, and a judge has ordered the pregnancy be terminated against her wishes.

The thread reached the maximum amount of comments before anybody was able to shed any light on my question.

I can't fathom how she can be physically forced to go through the procedure if she refuses to comply.

Could anybody shed any light on how exactly something like this could be enforced short of physically dragging her to the hospital and restraining her.

Horrible, horrible case by all accounts and my POV is that the judge has made the wrong decision - for the mother - I'm strictly pro choice in all situations but this doesn't sit right with me at all.

Many on the previous thread strongly disagree as is their prerogative but I don't understand how she can be made to go through with a termination?

Anybody?

How is this going to be more traumatic than a full term birth, e.g. via caesarian section? Especially when she is being forced to do it?

I imagine she would have shed loads of pain relief as they won't be monitoring the effect on the foteus.

Yes giving birth has risks but so do late term terminations.

Yet you're okay with her being forced to give birth but not to have an abortion. Sorry, not to have her baby thrown away like surgical waste. Can't miss out the anti-choice propoganda.

But the contractions are extremely painful in either event. Even with pethidine and G&A.

Even an early miscarriage can be agonisingly painful.

@cringemum

"I support abortion completely in all cases where the mother has chosen it.

What I don't support is forcing that decision on somebody who doesn't."

I actually think you are totally right OP.

And as @ItookYourJob says, the grandmother wants to raise the child.

Honestly if it were me and I had the resources, I'd be taking the woman overseas away from the reach of the courts. Of course a natural vaginal birth would be traumatic, ideally it would be delivered by c section?

The main risks to late stage termination are retained products of conception which could result in D&C or infection

The grandmother would not be able to care for the baby as the daughter would then have to move out of her own home which would be very traumatic for her.

"I doubt many of us would ever get over a pregnancy being ended for us without our consent."

This.

And indeed, she could be taken to another country where the 'right' thing to do could be judged very differently.

It's very common for children to be removed at birth. It's almost unheard of that those children would be forcibly aborted beforehand to prevent that occurrence.

Very common to remove children from birth from parents that either have full capacity or mildly limited capacity or that have been deemed incapable of caring for a child once it has been born. Those decisions are made in the best interests of the child or future child when there is no indication that the child will not be born as the mother has the capacity to continue the pregnancy.

This decision was made based on the best interests of the pregnant woman that has been deemed unable to understand the implications of continuing the pregnancy.

It's a completely different situation.

Of course a natural vaginal birth would be traumatic, ideally it would be delivered by c section?
A section is major abdominal surgery

Taking her overseas? Good grief!

@Cringemum

I know this is a sidetrack but that is so interesting! Was she a good mum, and how did your parents negotiate things?

My mother did not have LDs and was a hideous mother. The lady that helped mind my children had LDs and was endlessly patient with them, far better than me, a kind gentle person and I loved her. She had two lovely accomplished daughters of her own.

What I don't support is forcing that decision on somebody who doesn't.

She lacks capacity to make any decision, which is why the case has gone to court.

People don't have to agree with me and I don't mind that they don't.

I don't think people are agreeing or disagreeing with you - they are pointing out that anyone posting on a MN thread doesn't have access to the information that would be necessary to form a opinion.

It's not a question of her being forced to give birth though, she is already pregnant and giving birth is (although sad in this case) the next part of the process

The only thing being forced in this woman's case is the late term abortion.

Ideally she wouldn't be pregnant but we don't live in an ideal world and I will personally never condone forcing a termination at such a late stage on anybody, regardless.

It's very different to saying well what if she was a child, because she isn't.

This should be enough reason to let otherwise healty pregnancy to develop

Absolutely not. We don't keep women pregnant against their best interests so that someone else can raise the baby, regardless of whether that person is the grandparent or a random family wanting to adopt. The health of the pregnant woman comes first.

@LoafofSellotape

So how do you suggest they get the baby out without either major surgery or induced labour?

her mother has stepped forward and wants to take care of the baby? This should be enough reason to let otherwise healty pregnancy to develop. I think there is a whole army of kids raised by granparents behind the scenes.

If the mother raised the child then her daughter would not be able to continue living with her. So surely it is kinder to not end up with a situation where the daughter not only has to give birth but then has to leave her home and her mother as a result of the child?

I support abortion completely in all cases where the mother has chosen it.

For the 100th time this person does not have the capacity to decide if she does or does not want an abortion that's why it went to court, why do you not comprehend this?

And indeed, she could be taken to another country where the 'right' thing to do could be judged very differently.

Like America, where they think 8 year olds who are raped by their fathers should be made to carry their pregnancies to term?

@LoafofSellotape

"A c section is major abdominal surgery"

I'm not sure how you can say that a forced late stage termination and losing her baby, is less traumatic, long term, than a c section?

The poor woman is already pregnant.

And yes I'd be taking the woman overseas. But then I've spent most of my life overseas and would be comfortable doing so.

There's no evidence to suggest her mother failed to protect her.

Sadly some children who are never left unsupervised are abused under the same roof as their mother and the mother doesn't know, does that make them negligent and neglectful?

I'm not suggesting she was abused, merely saying that sometimes things can happen and the parents not be at direct fault.

She doesn’t have the capacity to choose, OP.

Why can’t you understand that?

This decision has been made by a court because she can’t choose for herself.

There's no evidence to suggest her mother failed to protect her.

The fact of her pregnancy is explicit evidence of this.

‘Op why do you think you know better than the court and team of medical professionals who actually know the full story’

This ^

I do understand that she lacks capacity, but unfortunately she's already pregnant and has since expressed a desire not to terminate.

she is already pregnant and giving birth is (although sad in this case) the next part of the process

So just let her endure the exceptionally traumatic consequences because 'oh well it's done now, best not get involved'?