To think banning stuff from schools is stupid

[SparklesAndUnicorns]

I like to think I'm quite a 'progressive' parent and I like my children to express themselves how they feel most comfortable, they tend to pick and wear what they want over the weekends and I do let them ocassionally change their hair colours with semi permanent safe dyes.
I agree with school uniform but my daughters school doesn't even allow hair bows, she went in with a few braids and bows in the other day and came home with a messy ponytail in and told me the teacher had taken them out. Teacher explained it's against school rules to have more than one bow in their hair. Aibu to think rules like no nail varnish, no hair accessories and no hair dye is just ridiculous rules? How is this going to effect their learning? She is only 6 and I really don't understand the reasoning. Surely if it's a bullying thing then this is down to parenting your child to accept that everyone is different, I can't see how it's a health and safety issue like piercings would be, I do agree to remove earrings on PE days as I can understand that one, but the others seem strange to me. Would love to know others feelings and opinions on this

I understand where you are coming from, too many rules will just annoy parents and end up with a parent's against the teacher sort of situation. My kids school is going through this with winter coats, the kids are being punished for wearing a jacket over their uniform. I think there just needs to be a few rules that aren't ridiculous.

Yes, surely, once the novelty has no uniform worn off, fashion won't be such a big thing

I'm a bit torn here. On the one hand I do think school uniform rules are ridiculous and in general it would make much more sense to have no uniform at all; or, if you must have them, make it really generic, e.g. just something like plain dark coloured skirt or trousers, plain shirt, plain jumper.

However, I think it's equally ridiculous for 6 year olds to have hair dyes, nail varnish etc, and that if they really want them they can and should be kept to the holidays and weekends.

gandalf456
It depends on the ethos of the school and the parents. A friend of mine teaches in a UK non uniform school and their dress code is smart. There's almost no uniform issues but the usual 'what difference does it make' tribe on MN would have a field day trying to argue that it's oppressie and awful.

Equally, I worked at a non uniform school that had a casual dress code for staff and pupils. I really enjoyed it. Learning came first, but then people were travelling a good distance to get there and the ethos of the parents/students was 'you are there to learn and not to spend every 5 seconds 'challenging' the rules being disruptive and argumentative' Education was valued and teachers didn't get whining complaints if we did sanction.

Non uniform could work in some schools. I'm quite open to it. But it doesn't work in a school where a reasonable number of parents think every rule they don't like is up for negotiation / tale the approach of 'you can't sanction my child... They were only...'

There is a lot of research out there that shows strict uniform policy generally boosts academic attainment, so there must be something to it

That's absolutely not true. There is a wealth of research that shows the opposite.

In primary especially I think kids should be kids and not muck with their appearance with hair dyes etc

My child didn't magically stop being his age because his hair was blue. In fact, when is a better time to have hair that is coloured? How is using a wash out vegetable dye stopping a child from being a child? Especially if they've asked for it?

I would not be encouraging my kids to be overly concerned with their appearance but the obsession with stupid, expensive uniform rules really winds me up. Tucking shirts in if you are wearing the winter shirt, not allowed to tuck your shirt in if you are wearing the summer shirt - over 25C for a few days - we are texted to tell us kids are given permission to not wear blazer to school - otherwise it's detention if they take their blazer off on the way home. Who has the time to come up with this shit and what's worse they enforce it!

once the novelty has no uniform worn off, fashion won't be such a big thing

It's rare for continental European schools to have uniform and what students wear is a complete non-issue. No one dresses up to go to school.

Between my kids I been through a cumulative 27 years in European schools with no uniform, in both poor and wealthy areas, and during all that time the number of issues that we've experienced relating to clothing is precisely zero.

Rather than focusing on their phonics or sums I think it's far more progressive to have six year olds discussing their latest manicure.

lot of research out there that shows strict uniform policy generally boosts academic attainment,

You need to provide a link, because to my knowledge there is none whatsoever.

"In fact, when is a better time to have hair that is coloured"

Maybe a time when he should be focusing on learning and having fun, not his appearance?

Given that teachers work 50 + hour weeks( I live with one) I doubt they bother making / enforcing rules for something to do. The rules arise in response to things that happen that disrupt learning/ cause drama.

Have you ever taught, codemonkey?

The children in my class who wear nail varnish don't discuss it in the slightest. It's second nature. When they come in and sit down, I might say to one that the colour reminds me of -insert word here- or that I like someone's shoes/bag/haircut and that's as far as it goes.

They have far more important things to be getting on with than discussing their appearance. In fact, I think that letting children be themselves rather than conforming to appearance being such a huge deal (as in the case of strict uniform rules) helps children realise that appearance isn't the be all and end all.

They're much more keen to go and play in the mud, or do whatever else is going on in the classroom.

Most of Europe and America don’t have school uniforms in normal schools and I don’t think it is a huge deal.

Only here do you have schools spending huge amounts of time on whether someone is wearing the uniform correctly.

I think my dcs uniforms shortened my life.

The stress of trying to get everything ready the night before the impact on sleep because I had to wait up for the washing machine to finish to transfer to the tumble dryer.
Both have ADHD and lose things very easily.

I would get in at 9pm and have to start tracking down particular clean shirts, iron trousers, wash jumpers and trying to find both shoes.

I would have much preferred for them to just wear what ever was in their wardrobe.
I still can’t see the benefit of uniforms.

If you have pig tails do you only wear one bow? Wouldn’t that look very strange or is there now a ruling on how you wear your hair.

Given that teachers work 50 + hour weeks( I live with one) I doubt they bother making / enforcing rules for something to do. The rules arise in response to things that happen that disrupt learning/ cause drama. Like insisting shirts are tucked in for winter and then insisting if you chose to wear a summer shirt they are not tucked in - it's a mystery to me how this aids learning.

Maybe a time when he should be focusing on learning and having fun, not his appearance

You think my child is sat at school focusing on the fact that his hair is blue, rather than learning or having fun? How bizarre. At the moment, I have lilac hair and when I'm teaching, I certainly am not thinking, "Ooh, my hair is lilac! I must concentrate on that, rather than anything around me!"

Hair colour doesn't stop a child from learning. My DS is very high achieving. It also doesn't stop him from having fun. I can assure you, he has a lot of fun. It's really strange to think that hair might have anything to do with that.

Like insisting shirts are tucked in for winter and then insisting if you chose to wear a summer shirt they are not tucked in - it's a mystery to me how this aids learning.

It is attitudinal. It’s hard to explain to someone who has never taught, but the children who plan to purposefully disrupt their own learning and that of others are the children who will find a way to make themselves look different to everyone else. If shirts are allowed to be untucked, those children will unbutton them. Saying “tuck in your shirt” is shorthand for “Oi - you’re not the boss in here, I am.” And most of the time it’s effective.

What I think is really stupid is teachers/schools vigorously enforcing what some people would regard as trivial rules, yet at the same time, completing ignoring/condoning more serious issues like smoking in the toilets and bullying. It's just the typical "easy pickings" so they can tick boxes and not have to deal with "hard" issues.

I'm all for rules and have brought up my son to respect the school rules, to the extent that he's never had any detentions nor other disciplinary black marks at all for anything. But it's hard when he knows others are getting away with serious breaches because the teachers only seem to care about some rules and not others.

For all those saying that children are at school to learn, not to make an issue out of their appearance.

Isn’t that a vote against uniforms.

So much effort and time to get their appearance right. Not wearing the wrong jumper or shoes or trousers or skirt or tie.

Uniforms are the epitamy of making a huge issue out of appearance

Rather than grabbing what is to hand.

Saying “tuck in your shirt” is shorthand for “Oi - you’re not the boss in here, I am.” And most of the time it’s effective. I wish it was that easy - I have had to complain to the school about my dc's teacher's inability to control their class on quite a few occasions and as I've mentioned the uniform is very strict, maybe someone should tell these teachers about the magic of the untucked shirt!

NationalAnthem

That doesn’t mean other issues can’t be at play. But it’s not evidence that uniform doesn’t matter either.

But it’s not evidence that uniform doesn’t matter either. No evidence it does either!

NationalAnthem

I think it does. And I was a teacher for the best part of a decade. I am not trying to evidence the view, just give it.

Saying “tuck in your shirt” is shorthand for “Oi - you’re not the boss in here, I am

Personally I prefer to actually teach than get bogged down with u tucked shirts. But then I don't have many problems with behaviour as the children respect me. Perhaps because I ignore any attempts to "look different" as I know it makes no difference to learning, so it fizzles out and they want to please, rather than try and niggle by pushing boundaries 🤷🏼‍♂️

Personally I prefer to actually teach than get bogged down with u tucked shirts. But then I don't have many problems with behaviour as the children respect me. Perhaps because I ignore any attempts to "look different" as I know it makes no difference to learning, so it fizzles out and they want to please, rather than try and niggle by pushing boundaries 🤷🏼‍♂️

That’s you. We’re all different and different things work.

A crap teacher who can't gain control/respect will still be a crap teacher who can't gain control/respect whether the kids wear uniforms or not.